The Goat Pen

When is the deadline for NY to match? Is it tonight?

Saturday? I'm thinking Lin's offer being dramatically increased by Houston before they have to make a decision doesn't really help us...

T Dot O Dot wrote:When is the deadline for NY to match? Is it tonight?

They get 3 days from the offer signing.

right, which was Wednesday

but matching the offer would have to go through the league office no?

so we wont know until open of business Monday?

I saw Frank Isola tweet it's a 50/50 chance NY matches, which is too good to be true, but if they do I wont be mad

BC has looked like an amateur again, a buddy of mine sent me a quote from BC 3 months ago saying "we wont spend for the sake of spending"

Landry Fields at that price tag is exactly that, keep the caproom if nothing better comes up, keep our options open, maybe even steal some draft picks while facilitating other deals, you dont HAVE to spend cap room on scrubs

Exactly what I've been saying...

Landry Fields by himself is bad enougn but if you think about real reasoning behind the signing and us still going through with it after we've failed... even worse.

You guys act like its your money bc is spending. Save cap room to facilitate trades?? Sounds good....what did we get from our 14m trade exception for Bosh? had we made a trade of note I am sure I would be hearing how dumb we were to use it

If we don't spend it, we sign who??? That's the problem I have with the logic being used. we all agree we can't sign free agents of value but facilitating a trade will bring us something good?

I don't like the fields signing but it is the type of gamble this team is forced to make. But I would rather a team attempt to accumulate assets and make change rather than hoping they can somehow take advantage of an opportunity other teams are trying to do to make their teams better. What team is going to give up high draft picks or serviceable players for a team facilitating a trade? Like I said...sounds good. Just not very realistic IMO.

As for Ross, he looked solid in his first game tonight...far more athletic than I thought and he does have a great stroke. Had not seen much of him before but first impression was great.

Sotola,

answer me this, if cockblocking a Nash to NYK sign & trade was not in play... does BC make Landry Fields an offer for 3 years 19 mill ?

Probably not and that's my point. He made a calculated gamble to make our team better. Far better than a "let's sit around and hope we can pick up some scraps from other deals" approach.

Houston is trying to make an extremely risky transaction. If they land him, they might change their franchise direction. If they don't, they begin a long rebuilding. If they do and he leaves... See rebuilding. But they realize a slow and steady approach without any legitimate building blocks is doomed for failure.

I would have preferred a total dismantling of this team to make it the bobcats but Mlse would never go that approach. I would have dealt everyone except derozan, Davis, Bayless and bargnani and attempted to finish dead last. The only thing I would have wanted in return was a body with an expiring contract or a guy with 2 years left minimum.

But Mlse won't allow it so any gm in Toronto will need to take risks, and overpay, to make deals to move forward. It's not like we can go back much.

As for pulling the deal from fields, I don't agree. Any gm or respected executive is judged on many levels and ethics and honesty are one of them. Unless he purposely conspired with the agent of fields then going back on his word is just unprofessional. I would rather be professional than a weasel.

I honestly see this deal as a calculated risk that didn't go as planned but it hardly ranks as a death knell for the franchise or as an impediment to a future transaction. If you can move an Adonai Doyle or rashard Lewis, you can move anyone to get a deal done. It's much ado about nothing IMO.

And if any team with a pick likely to be in the top 3 wants any of the 4 I would keep, or combination thereof, I would gladly entertain it. Bargnani is the only guy I would be reluctant to deal unless it was legitimately comparable talent now or unless it was post lottery and the hornets had of come calling. Otherwise the cupboard is so bear that I would try and horde high draft picks and build anew....similar to the okc approach.

Why argue for merits of Landry Fields right now straight up when you yourself admit that Colangelo wouldn't sign him to the deal he did if he wasn't trying to force Nash's hands? Really, I have doubts if Colangelo would even try to get him if not for Nash because really, it's making a move for the sake of making one. This was a risk, but definitely not a calculated one, rather it's a risk made out of desperation.

Accumulating assets is nice. But Landry Fields is a mediocre asset and this team is already overflowing with mediocre assets of his level at his positions. There's no need to get more bodies unless you are talking upgrades, which Fields is not especially at that price tag, otherwise, they just get in each other's playing time and development by creating a logjam. The fact that this team's got enough intruguing prospects that would be in their best interest to devlop in DeRozan, Ross, and James Johnson means they can afford to wait and see while looking for opportunities. See when you talk about alternative to Fields, you see the likes of Ben Uzoh but I see the likes of DeRozan, Ross, and James Johnson and I happen to like them better cause they have better future IMO and they cost a lot less and they are already here.

The next step then would be to look to make changes and upgrades, by any means possible. Why limit yourself to free agency when this team's always done better through trades? Colangelo's historically fucked up the free agency and reconciled with trades to correct his own fuckups? And extra cap room and flexibility is always essential in trades as it is in free agency. No, Landry Fields isn't impossible to move, but his deal creates unnecessary roadblock, extra work for the team to get around, and extra leverage for other teams to maybe ask for and get more. May provide enough delay in potential trades process that the other team may just say no.

As for rescinding, again, how many people outside Toronto still remember the BS job Salmons and Michael Jordan pulled? If they can get away with that kind of shit, so can we and people forget. And if you want to talk about ethics... that already went out the window when Colangelo pulled this bush league move to force Nash's hands and became the joke of the NBA. In fact, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if this pissed Nash off and played a factor in his going elsewhere. It's too late to talk about ethics and professionalism. Reputation argument also goes out the window since it's already hit rock bottom this offseason throughout this process and we'll come out in no worse shape.

Of course, all this is moot since NY is not matching and Fields is a Raptor.

re - Why argue for merits of Landry Fields right now

because he DOESNT HURT. He is better than nothing. We aren't running the club and we don't have to pay his salary. A body that can play is more valuable than just cap space. Injuries happen and depth is never a bad thing.... especially when you have a draft pick that could be lost. Who cares if certain positions are comparable in talent? It means guys will have to play hard or they will know their ass gets sit on the bench. That's not a bad thing in any stretch of the imagination. I think I summed it up in my last note but again..... THIS IS ALL MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. If there is a rumour out there that fails to occur because we couldn't meet the needs of the suitor due to a 6M/yr contract, I will gladly say I vastly underestimated the impact of this signing. Do you honestly think a 6M contract is going to stop something big? Or even moderately big?

re - The next step then would be to look to make changes and upgrades, by any means possible

exactly. If you read my last post it stated that sitting around with cap space, HOPING, that a trade will present itself makes us like the Jays in the late 80s. Pat Gillick used to be known as "stand Pat" which means he never did jack except harvest his younger players. when he finally made deals, some that were considered serious overpayment, the Jays won championships. He gave up Jeff Kent, who had a remarkable career, for a rent a player in David Cone. Baseball is a different sport but the mentality is the same. You can try and make change or hope change makes it's way to you. I am all behind trying to make some calculated risks and willing to live with the consequences.

re - As for rescinding

disagree with the entire paragraph. An eye for an eye is what makes this world a piss pot. and karma is a bitch. Bobcats look really valuable right now don't they?

RE - but I see the likes of DeRozan, Ross, and James Johnson and I happen to like them better cause they have better future IMO

Ross? The guy who was compared to the Rafael Arajao draft in terms of drafting by need rather than bpa??? now he's an intriguing prospect you want to build around?? Interesting. I wonder if his performance in the summer league, and hearing almost every non Raptor analyst stating the Raps seem to have stole a player had anything to do with the change of heart. : )

yep, Knicks didnt match

The only upside is his girlfriend :

[youtube]tNSawioHFXI[/youtube]

Acy signed and rumour of Johnson to Kings for 2nd round pick

I am not a big fan of Johnson but I thought he could at least fetch a mid to low first round pick. Must be more of a headcase than we know. When a guy gets let go from two franchises for practically nothing, it says alot.

I shake my head at the stupidity.

Last I'll say on Fields and his contract since he's already here and it's a waste of time now. I feel Landry Fields certainly can hurt us just cause we have to resort to making this kind of stupid trade and pat ourselves on the back for clearing $2.8M off cap space for "flexibility" after overpaying someone who's not any better more than twice the amount. And I'm no expert but from what I've seen, it seems like any number of things big or small can break a trade and Fields trade is certainly a roadblock that the team will have to work around and it may just give enough pause in trade talks for the other team to get cold feet or another team to swoop in and take the player we want away. I'd rather not have that possibility, big or small, if it can be helped. As for his basketball merits, we'll see what happens but any role player that excelled in D'Antoni's system, I take with a grain of salt. He also seems limited both in ability and ceiling.

As for Ross, I don't think I've changed my opinion on him much. I see his ceiling as a solid role player, fringe starter. It's just how low my opinion is of Fields and his contract. And of course, if you've spent your lotto pick on someone, it's in your best interest to try to develop him as best you can and see what you've got.

As for James Johnson trade, it's just mind boggling how stupid Colangelo has become. Seriously, this type of garbage trade can be done any time later in the offseason after you've exhausted all the possilibities. Why pull the trigger now and lose someone you could use later as a trade chip? Colangelo's got DeMar DeRozan, Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, etc. he should be looking at consolidating for an upgrade through trades. That should be his number on priority IMO and use Calderon and his expiring contract as necessary as cap fodder. And maybe James Johnson and his expiring contract can work as low risk sweetener in a deal. If first priority fails to materialize, then he trades Calderon and see if James Johnson can still be used to maybe get the other team to sweeten the pot. After that possibility is gone, then he gives away James Johnson if he feels so strongly about trading him away. But it looks like he's working backwards.

Fields - much ado about nothing

Ross - still haven't seen him play have you? I honestly think he has the potential to be better than demar. He's just as quick, just as athletic, and his shooting is further ahead at the same stage. I gotta admit that I had only seen small clips of him before the last two games but he has the tools to become more than a fringe starter. He needs to learn the game but the tool set is well above average,

Johnson has been traded twice for second round picks which says all there is to say. Perhaps you know more than the gms and coaches but where there is smoke, there's usually fire. These guys spend more time together than any average job that a nutcase can become a poison. I am not sure if that's the case for Johnson but if it is, keeping him for that, once again, ever elusive trade in the future is a waste. As for Bc looking to upgrade through trades..... You should tell him to consider that yoss.... I don't think he's even thought about it. Problem is that we don't have much that is worth much. What would you honestly be willing to give up for demar, Amir or Davis? Calderon will have some value but it will take sometime to make a deal since he wants to be dealt so we will get lowball offers. Start the season and wait until some team has an injury to a pg or when there young freshman shows he can't handle it yet.

Just too many rumours about this guy Yoss for them to not be all true

his rift with Casey was apparently much greater than what we've been lead to believe, he's been in both Thibodeau's & Casey's doghouse

let's not forget the one rumour that has never been confirmed but pops up so much that it's practically true..... a team flight had to make an emergency landing due to fire alarms, because he was smoking weed in the lavatory

guys talk about that, that's the kind of stuff that spreads thru the league, I'm not sure what you think he could have netted us Yoss

although I do agree with your sentiment that none of this would be necessary if we don't sign Fields to that silly contract

personally, I'm going to miss Bayless more than JJ

I can't honestly say there are too many players on this current roster, or from last year, that I would miss. I will probably miss calderon a tad but only Reggie played the game with the emotion that I respect. Acy looks every bit the same as reggie.... Right down to the beard and bald head. My guess is he will become a fav of mine over the next couple years.

Bayless played tough but he was too darn stupid for my liking. Johnson was even more inconsistent so I won't lose any sleep over it.

I think this team now has players that are more tailored to what the coach wants to accomplish. V will be a much needed addition.