The Goat Pen

Editorial from the Wall Street Journal

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott this week honored Jack Wilson with a new award called the Governor’s Medal of Courage. Mr. Wilson, a voluntary security guard for the West Freeway Church of Christ, earned the award for shooting dead a gunman—six seconds after he’d opened fire—who had just shot and killed two members of the Texas church.

Most of America rightly regards Mr. Wilson as a hero who used his gun to save innocent life on that December Sunday. But apparently not Michael Bloomberg. At a campaign stop in Alabama before the New Year, the former mayor of New York City and Democratic presidential candidate weighed in on the shooting.

“I wasn’t there,” Bloomberg told his audience. “I don’t know the facts—that somebody in the congregation had their own gun and killed the person who murdered two other people. But it’s the job of law enforcement to have guns and to decide when to shoot. You just do not want the average citizen carrying a gun in a crowded place.”

As critics pointed out, if the Bloomberg rule had prevailed and the people in those pews had to wait until cops arrived, many more innocent citizens would have been maimed or murdered. As Gov. Abbott noted, “Only God knows who is alive today because of Jack Wilson.”

We’re glad Mr. Bloomberg is in the presidential race as an alternative voice on education, economic, and foreign policy. But on gun rights he is on the leftward end of the spectrum. If by chance he wins the nomination, he’ll need a better answer than telling innocent church-goers to wait for police to arrive while a shooter mows them down.

Bloomberg said he didn't know the facts, so he apparently didn't know Wilson's background as a firearms instructor and LEO. And his 'average citizen' remark didn't read as "wait for cops to arrive". Sounded like he was cautioning against having just any joker joe packing a piece at a public event.

It's easy to praise the guy who killed the gunman with one shot when everything goes right but I wonder how this story would've parsed if it really was an average citizen (or even the highly trained firearms instructor) who had brought a gun into the church and had killed several other church members by accident in his attempt to take out the gunman? Just something to think about. It's kinda the same as a coach's call at the end of a game, if it works he's a genius, if it doesn't, he's an idiot. Not saying a coach's call is anything nearly as important or grave as the church scenario, obviously, I'm just illustrating a point. At any rate, I doubt this guy would be getting a medal if he had accidentally killed several church goers by accident and in fact he would probably be getting an indictment...

To really drive the point home, how would you feel if the hero (esp. if he wasn't a trained firearms instructor, but just some dude who happened to have a gun on him when the shooting started) had accidentally killed, say, your son or daughter while he was trying to take out the gunman? Yes, you might could say "well, if he hadn't been there, the gunman might've killed her too," but "might've" and "actually did" are two different things...

so the over riding point that both of you are trying to make is its better to be in a situation like that unarmed and wait for the police to arrive ?

bluetick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:19 am Bloomberg said he didn't know the facts,

then he should shut the fuck up

he's throwing his fortune out the door by the bucket fulls in a futile attempt to push a democratic agenda

when he does stuff like this whatever gains he made are reversed.

Virginia is a powder keg right now

I just read that 90% of counties in the state of Virginia have passed resolutions in support of gun ownership in defiance of new laws attempting to be enacted by the newly elected Virginia Governor.

laws are either enforced by conscience (acceptance of the law) or by threat of violence. Laws do not exist simply because a governing body says its a law and should be complied with. Secondly this law stands in violation of the second amendment and has been clarified multiple times by SCOTUS. So now you have a populace where the majority of the state is against a law, and they have their guaranteed rights defined in the constitution on their side , and to further add fuel to the fire, Law Enforcement Officers in the throughout the state have stood up and said they will not enforce this law.

And the governing body in the state has declared they will enforce this law thru the use of violence.

This can get ugly. There are too many outside influences who see this as too big a fight to back down.

Bloomberg should have shut up without knowing the facts. Agreed.

I insure churches (including my own). There's a serious liability issue involved when you have untrained people sitting armed in the back of the congregation. An off-duty officer, a former LEO, a security guard etc etc are the kind of people you want during the service. Our church has two of those -volunteers - filling that role at present on a weekly schedule. I have filled in their absence. We had a nearby Unitarian Church shot up a few years back - 3 dead - and we've had this same set-up ever since.

"so the over riding point that both of you are trying to make is its better to be in a situation like that unarmed and wait for the police to arrive ?"

No, my point was that actions are judged by results, and the judgement of this action would've been very different if the results had been different, perhaps even by people who generally support people carrying guns to church. Like I said, if the guy had accidentally killed your daughter and a few other churchgoers, the thought just might've crept into your head "Gee, maybe it would've been better if that guy hadn't brought a gun to church today." Again, I'm not saying that as a general rule, just trying to illustrate that our judgments of any action are colored by the results of that action. Probably even more so if the guy hadn't been a firearms instructor but just some dude who was packing a pistol...

"he's throwing his fortune out the door by the bucket fulls in a futile attempt to push a democratic agenda"

Actually, considering his fortune, I'd say more like "spoonfuls." I'm pretty sure this is a calculated strategy by Bloomberg. He can't (I guess) donate but so much to any particular candidate and he also can't control the message of that candidate after he's donated his money to them. I think (actually, I'm sure) he thinks Trump is a disaster and just wants to see him gone. Not sure whether he really thinks he can be the dem candidate, but he can spend all he wants on his own campaign and put out any kind of message he pleases, and that message so far seems to be "Trump is a dumpster fire"...

Just one of many reasons I'd love to see Bruce Pearl at Kentucky....

bluetick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:56 am Bloomberg should have shut up without knowing the facts. Agreed.

I insure churches (including my own). There's a serious liability issue involved when you have untrained people sitting armed in the back of the congregation. An off-duty officer, a former LEO, a security guard etc etc are the kind of people you want during the service. Our church has two of those -volunteers - filling that role at present on a weekly schedule. I have filled in their absence. We had a nearby Unitarian Church shot up a few years back - 3 dead - and we've had this same set-up ever since.

Good for you. Although I hope you upgraded from your revolver. Those things are embarrassing. Unless it's a Colt python, that the manufacturer just reintroduced. That would be cool. But then again, I wouldn't know. I don't own any guns.

Yes, VA is a powder keg. It has not gone unnoticed that, when the Democrats took over a former red state, the very first thing they did was not to improve schools. It was not to help the environment. It was not to build rebuild bridges or roads or high speed internet or high speed rail service. It was not to do anything they supposedly love, so that they can finally usher in the Age of Aquarius they have been dreaming of since their acid trips at Woodstock. No, the first thing they did was start gun grabbing.

This attempt at gun grabbing in Virginia may not go as smoothly as they think.

Professor Tiger wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:05 am Tree, is this guy you?

There's no nagging bitch and 3 other freeloaders including the dog, so no, not me.

crazy world we live in where we have to have people armed in church

Yeah, and a so-called pastor talking about how cool it is. Very ecumenical...

Look at hedge with his big words

People exercising their second amendment rights to use firearms protect themselves against shooters: cool.

Bloomberg’s recommendation to sit and wait for the cops to arrive, and everybody is already dead while the shooter gets away: insane.

PS hedge, by the way you used the word “ecumenical,” you obviously have no idea of what the word means. Waste of a fine UNC education.

Glad to see there was no violence in Richmond today.

BAHAHAHA!