The Goat Pen

[quote="bluetick"]Trump calls the brown people "rapists", "animals", and "invaders".

rapists - true
animals - true
invaders - true

but does he call Americans this? nope

only people here illegally

so you know what? fuck those people

fuck 'em, shoot'em....whatevs

bluetick wrote:fuck 'em, shoot'em....whatevs

if we enforced our immigration laws that shooting wouldn't have happened, so yea, whatevs

The unintended consequences of mass shootings and the attempts to use these shootings for various agendas can be far worse than the shootings themselves and ultimately endanger far more people.

I was listening to NPR this morning prior to President Trump’s 10 AM EST address on the shootings. NPR set Trump up for blame. Trump opposes illegal immigration and spoke of the 20,000 person caravan as “an invasion.” And so forth. And it wasn’t just NPR. As USA reported, while joining in the blame trump orchestration, “Media outlets around the country, and around the world, decried his [Trump’s] role in inspiring a shooter who gunned down 20 people.” US Rep. Veronica Escobar (D,TX) said: “All of this has happened because Hispanic people have been dehumanized. They have been dehumanized by the president, by his enablers, by other politicians.”

Rep. Escobar did not explain why and how a country’s defense of its borders constitutes dehumanization of those that the law requires to be kept out. Is the President of the United States, who is sworn to enforce the laws and Constitution of the US, supposed to violate the law? If the American people want open borders, they should inform their representatives and get a law passed that abolishes border controls. If Hispanics are dehumanized by being kept out, so are Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, Iranians, and Venezuelans, all people declared to be national security threats to the US which employs a massive armed force to be sure these threats don’t invade us. Just imagine how we dehumanized the Japanese and Germans during World War II by keeping them from invading us.

The El Paso shooter is said to be inspired by Trump. But the Dayton shooter a few hours later is said to be a left-socialist satanist and Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren supporter who uses Antifa language. The Dayton shooter doesn’t say anything about immigrants or white supremacy. He wants to “kill every fascist.” So who inspired the Dayton shooter? Sanders? Warren? Antifa?

What explains the widely varying sources of blame for mass shootings? We have had every kind of explanation—dislike of homosexuals, childhood mistreatment, unexplained (Las Vegas), Muslim terrorists, job firings, and now Hispanic hatred and hatred of fascists. Notice that it is the El Paso shooting, not the Dayton shooting a few hours later, that the presstitutes and Democrats are hyping. Why? It better fits their agenda.

We are unlikely to discover the real causes as long as shootings are used to advance agendas. What is important is not the facts but the advancement of agendas.

Whereas the Dayton shooter wants to kill fascists, which presumably includes white supremacists, the El Paso shooter is portrayed as a white supremacist who hates Hispanics. Even President Trump has bought into this characterization of the shooter. However, the El Paso shooter’s manifesto doesn’t support this characterization of his motives. He is concerned that the core population of his country is being marginalized and dispossessed by several developments including automation and illegal immigrants and their demands. It so happens that the current illegal immigrants are from south of the border, but he doesn’t hate them because they are Hispanic. If they were coming from Asia, or Africa or a differentl planet, he would see it as the same problem. To the shooter, it is not a problem of hate but of fact. There are more people than there are jobs.

He addresses the issue that his actions will be blasted “as the sole result of racism and hatred of other countries.” He blames this response on American hypocrites, largely white people, who “support imperialistic wars that have caused the loss of tens of thousands of American lives and untold numbers of civilian lives. The argument that mass murder is okay when it is state sanctioned is absurd. Our government has killed a whole lot more people for a whole lot less.”

One of the El Paso shooter’s concerns with immigration is that “continued immigration will make one of the biggest issues of our time, automation, so much worse. Some sources say that in under two decades, half of American jobs will be lost to it. . . . So it makes no sense to keep on letting millions of illegal or legal immigrants flood into the United States.” This logical conclusion together with betrayal by America’s white leaders and the damage done to Americans by the corporations are the political and economic reasons he gives for his attack. “My motives for this attack are not at all personal.” In other words, the attack does not stem from his hatred of Hispanic immigrants but from the adverse consequences for American citizens of mass immigration from wherever.

He also writes in his manifesto that “the idea of deporting or murdering all non-white Americans is horrific. Many have been here at least as long as the whites, and have done as much to build our country.”

As for being inspired by Trump to murder immigrants, the El Paso shooter writes: “My ideology has not changed for several years. My opinions on automation, immigration, and the rest predate Trump and his campaign for president. I [am] putting this here because some people will blame the President or certain presidential candidates for the attack. This is not the case. I know that the media will probably call me a white supremacist anyway and blame Trump’s rhetoric. The media is infamous for fake news Their reaction to this attack will likely just confirm that.” Truer words were never spoken.

The fact that the El Paso shooter’s manifesto does not support the storyline of the media is the reason the media refuses to publish the manifesto and why the Drudge Report was denounced for posting the manifesto. The shooter’s manifesto contradicts the controlled explanation of the event.

The El Paso shooter’s manifesto, kept from you by the sordid presstitutes, ishttps://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/0 ... manifesto/

advertising the manifesto of a psycho who murdered 22 people would seem to enable others with similar ideas to go forward

there was a time when the name of the shooter was withheld by several networks so as not to encourage others

news being news and public being public most want to know every detail in these horrific cases. ratings skyrocket

I still think banning whatever version of assault weapons and all the extra features that allow someone to fire off 100 rounds indiscriminately in multiple directions is the way to go. Somebody with a hand gun or a rifle just cant do the amount of damage these two nuts did in the amount of time they did it.

Exactly

I remember when everyone blamed Marilyn Manson for mass shootings

In this case printing the manifesto is important to show everyone blaming Trump that this guy was coherent enough to form these opinions before Trump and smart enough to realize they would try to blame trump and nationalism

It was the trench coats.

Can't argue with crash's reasoning. All my guns (that I gave away) are (were) pistols and shotguns. A double-barrel 12 gauge is adequate for home defense imo and isn't going to penetrate three walls and accidently kill a neighbor.

Jarts were a blast but they didn't have a strong lobby and so they were banned long ago. The plastic-head substitutes aren't as fun but you can't deny the safety upgrade. Weird that Congress didn't put a 10-year limit on that ban, come to think of it. Wonder why they did that with the 'assault weapons' ban?

So stopping nuts isn’t the priority, just slowing down how efficient they can be when they do kill is the solution. I think I can argue with that reasoning

What polling correlates this to Americans wanting gun control?

Gun sales are surging after the weekend mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, fueled by first-time buyers seeking pistols they can carry with them for protection.

The latest jump validated a big increase in purchases and background checks recorded by the FBI that show the four most recent months higher than the same months in 2018.

What’s more, the trend in the “National Instant Criminal Background Check System,” or NICS, is on a path to make 2018 the second biggest year since 2016, when gun owners and prospective gun owners filled stores before the presidential election that was expected to elect gun control advocate Hillary Rodham Clinton.


According to the latest NICS numbers just released, this year there have been nearly 16 million background checks, which are done for gun sales, applications for concealed carry permits and other gun-related legal issues.

As with past mass shootings, applications for concealed carry permits and interest in smaller pistols has increased. But the twin shooting has sparked even more interest.

We checked in with Hyatt Guns in Charlotte, N.C., one of the nation’s largest, and Marketing Director Justin Anderson explained the trend to us.

“While we have seen a measured rise in sale of certain tactical rifles and accessories this week, most customers are looking for concealed carry handguns,” Anderson said.

“Just this week we have fielded hundreds of calls from people that have never purchased a gun before. Our concealed carry training classes are filling up quickly. People are realizing that even a trip to Walmart isn’t safe these days and they want to be able to protect themselves. Remember that nothing stops a lunatic bent on carnage better than a law abiding citizen with a gun. I continue to urge people to get a gun, get trained with that gun, and carry, always,” he added.

eCat wrote: Remember that nothing stops a lunatic bent on carnage better than a law abiding citizen with a gun. I continue to urge people to get a gun, get trained with that gun, and carry, always,” he added.

.

Indeed

btw, for those that say who needs a hi capacity magazine

the Dayton police shot 58 times at the suspect before he was subdued.

How many were shooting?

crotch wrote:

eCat wrote: Remember that nothing stops a lunatic bent on carnage better than a law abiding citizen with a gun. I continue to urge people to get a gun, get trained with that gun, and carry, always,” he added.

.

Indeed

even if you don't believe that, what stops a lunatic who is intent on killing someone with a weapon, whether its a gun , knife , truck or bomb is a person with a gun.

Gun control people believe that should only be police who respond in 11 minutes on average to an emergency


Conner Betts killed 9 people in 32 seconds.

Jungle Rat wrote:How many were shooting?

would it make a difference if it were 1 or 200? they felt they needed 58 shots to stop him.

Nevermind. 6. About 10 per. Not excessive at all. I'd rather not have citizens firing at a shooter in a mass situation that they are not trained to deal with.

A rookie Texas police officer accidentally shot and killed a woman behind a shopping plaza when he fired repeatedly at a dog believed to be hers that was running at him, authorities said Friday.

And how many of the Dayton 9 were killed by 58 friendly fire shots?

yeah you look at the video and there was a large surge of bystanders between the shooter and the cops on the video before he went down