The Goat Pen

Saint wrote:

eCat wrote:

Saint wrote:Does that explain 30 years of it? Low wages are a product of unfettered greed. Blaming Mexicans completely misses the point. US companies have been outsourcing for years. The problem is still the top and all Trump is doing is rewarding those at the top. But keep thinking things are fine and dandy

I never said things are fine and dandy

I said this is the best the US economy gets

you rail about totalitarianism , what is it you want Trump (or any president) to do for those at the bottom?

Not the bottom, fuck those guys and fuck the ones at the top. What about the middle class? We grew up in a time that families could afford many of the simple things that are now out of reach for a growing number of middle class families. Now hardly anyone can afford a home or health care, much less a new car or fancy vacation. I don't know what a president or any politician can do, save hold off the barbarians at the gate if they're inclined. The one we have now is a barbarian but it doesn't matter. We're too far gone as a society to have the values necessary for the middle class (and even the lower class) to flourish but that's our only solution. It won't come from govt or corporations unless it's mandated by the people while we still have a voice.

Like I said, we're fucked.

There is a reason why someone spends $150 million to retain a 6 year job that pays $175K a year.

Boring Saturday

There is still plenty of opportunity to move up the economic ladder in America. Immigrants, especially Asians, do it all the time. There are no guarantees, but there are a few things that Asians do/don’t do that drastically improve your chances for upward mobility:

1. Do not wallow in self-pity. Asians do not spend a lot of time obsessing or aggrieving over FDR’s internment of Japanese-Americans or what the British did to Ghandi, and expect to be compensated for it.
2. Work your butt off.
3. Save your money. (Remember when that was respected and taught?) You do that by not buying stupid things.
3. Keep your family intact. Do not procreate children out of wedlock.
4. Form strong community bonds for mutual support.
5. Ruthlessly make your children stay in school and make straight A’s in all the hardest classes, especially STEM classes.
6. Do not allow your children to waste much time playing video games and watching tv. Same goes for extracurricular activities unless it is a STEM club. If your kids have free time, make them use it working at the family business or preparing for the ACT.
7. Do not do drugs. Do not commit crimes. Let your children know that if they do drugs or commit crimes, they will be considered an utter disgrace by their families and communities, and will shamed mercilessly.
8. Your children WILL go to college. That is non-negotiable. If you are at the low end of the economic ladder, there are are numerous ways to finance it at reduced or no cost, especially for a poor student with straight A’s in STEM classes. Use them.
9. The ONLY acceptable majors in college are STEM majors with strong hiring prospects and high income potential. Majoring in liberal arts will be treated almost like doing drugs or committing crimes.
10. Once you have arrived economically, you have an obligation to help others in your family and community coming along behind you.

Anybody of any race who does that has a very good chance of succeeding in America.

"You do that by not buying stupid things."

I wish your dad had bought some condoms...

Our entire economy is built on people buying stupid things and borrowing money to pay for it. I agree with a lot of your post, Prof, but the reality is that we're sick from the top down

It's this shit that's killing Dems, along with gender politics and other assorted bullshit. Right is getting righter and left is getting lefter and we're fucked.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol ... ssion=true

Saint wrote:It's this shit that's killing Dems, along with gender politics and other assorted bullshit. Right is getting righter and left is getting lefter and we're fucked.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol ... ssion=true

that's how they pay for health care, free college education , homeless housing and reparations

its what I've been saying about the progressives.

When you say soak the rich to pay for this stuff - Jeff Bezo's ain't paying shit

If you're a working guy - then you're rich in the eyes of Democrats. Rich is two people working making $80K combined a year in their eyes

We can talk shit about republicans cutting taxes for the wealthy - and yea, its a problem I guess, but Republicans ain't raising taxes on the middle class either.

Meanwhile 14 million immigrants have come into this country since 2006.

And the GOP is spending like crazy, too.

Like I said, we're fucked

yea

they are out of control in that regard

Trump: More popular than Reagan (but nobody else)

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/tr ... l-ratings/

eCat wrote:
Meanwhile 14 million immigrants have come into this country since 2006.

But that should add to our coffers if even half of that number are paying taxes.

when the secretary of finance asked Dick Cheney if he understood the ongoing war that he, Wolfowitz and Rumsfield were promoting (invasion of Iraq while we were already in Afghanistan promoting Wolfowitz's domino theory), would result in a ballooning deficit, Dick Cheney replied "Deficits don't matter

And that was before the 2008 financial meltdown where they doubled the deficit in about 6 years bleeding into the Obama era.

Its revolting we have record revenue coming in and we're still spending with a ballooning deficit

bastards, all of them

Saint wrote:

eCat wrote:
Meanwhile 14 million immigrants have come into this country since 2006.

But that should add to our coffers if even half of that number are paying taxes.

some are I"m sure, but they are also sending billions back to Mexico instead of spending it here, they are having children while working at the poverty line meaning they get health care, free school lunches, food stamps (kids are American citizens). Not to mention that if they weren't here, their employers would be forced to pay higher wages to Americans resulting in *more* tax revenue, more localized spending and fewer strained public services.

You need to see the movie "Vice." It's about Dick Cheney (thus the "vice" as in vice-president)...

Term limits

hedge wrote:You need to see the movie "Vice." It's about Dick Cheney (thus the "vice" as in vice-president)...

Thats fucking genius!

Jungle Rat wrote:Term limits

prison terms

eCat wrote:

Saint wrote:

eCat wrote:
Meanwhile 14 million immigrants have come into this country since 2006.

But that should add to our coffers if even half of that number are paying taxes.

some are I"m sure, but they are also sending billions back to Mexico instead of spending it here, they are having children while working at the poverty line meaning they get health care, free school lunches, food stamps (kids are American citizens). Not to mention that if they weren't here, their employers would be forced to pay higher wages to Americans resulting in *more* tax revenue, more localized spending and fewer strained public services.

The problem seems to be more about the low wages being paid than the work force. I agree that it doesn't help that they send money home and I've seen first-hand how many use social services but it still seems to be a wage issue first. And if you sent them all back to where they came from, you'd still have low wages and poor Americans instead of immigrants. It's a systemic problem that has no easy solution, like building a wall, for instance.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/30/america-w ... nequality/

Speaking of Asians, after the U.S., China and Japan are the 2nd and 3rd wealthiest nations on Earth (South Korea is 10th). Interestingly, the don't figure in the wealth inequality/income disparity rankings.

Here’s the list of the countries with the highest wealth inequality, according to the Allianz report
1.U.S.A. — 80.56
2.Sweden — 79.90
3.U.K. — 75.72
4.Indonesia — 73.61
5.Austria — 73.59
6.Germany — 73.34
7.Colombia — 73.18
8.Chile — 73.17
9.Brazil — 72.86
10.Mexico — 70.00

Japanese CEO Pay Roughly 10% of American Counterparts https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Japane ... unterparts
Those inscrutable Japanese - they make all A's yet their top management can't cash in. Must be a cultural thing, you reckon?

And simply paying people more money isn't going to solve the bigger problem of the spiraling cost of living on things like housing and healthcare. And uotimately, Americans will spend more on those things and less on consumer goods and then we will have a trade deficit that tariffs and higher minimum wage won't fix

It's a hot mess unless you're rich like Prof