The Goat Pen

that is a bit misleading when they list like 4 of the promises he kept as requiring health care for children, large employers to contribute to health care, etc

when the bottom line is he tanked on the single payer national health care system.

While that may qualify technically as a promise kept, the failure to create a single payer or at least a competing non profit health insurance provider has been nothing more than a boon to the insurance industry and added cost to the consumer.

Its simple. Everyone pays 15% on any income and donates 5% to charity regardless. You still keep 80% and you have roads, protection and the right to be an American. The next step of course would be to elect people to represent you who really will represent you. That might be tricky.

There has to be more to this story, otherwise it's the most ridiculous thing I've come across in months.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Fathe ... 422514.php

on that same page I read this

http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2011/12 ... -downtown/

The Obama administration, after keeping gun control on the back burner for over two years, is prompting concern among gun rights groups that it's slowly starting to squeeze the trigger on tighter regulation.

In the wake of the January shooting of Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others, President Obama remained mostly quiet on the firearms front as lawmakers clamored for new restrictions. But the president has since made a public call for tougher background checks. The Justice Department launched a series of meetings with officials and advocates to examine gun control policy. And while gun-control bills in Congress have languished, the administration has started to chip around the edges with its own proposals.

"They're doing a pretty good job ... as Obama has said, 'under the radar.' There's a lot going on under that radar," Gun Owners of America Director Larry Pratt said, referring to a remark Obama reportedly made in a private meeting with gun control advocates. "They've shown us how much they are prepared to do through regulation."

Pratt pointed to two proposals in particular. Under one proposed rule from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, dealers in four Southwestern states would be required to report multiple sales to the same person of certain kinds of rifles. The proposed requirement -- which would apply to dealers in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas -- is open for comment until the end of May. The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence claims the change would help the ATF "crack down" on Mexico's gunrunners
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Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.


In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

You watched Fox 19 tonight didnt you?

no I picked this up on a gun forum I read occasionally.

I heard recently about a guy with a carry permit in a bit of road rage shot at a guy on a bicycle. That's terrible. Out of the millions that have carry premits one guy tries to shoot a bicylist. I say make it illegal to shoot people on bicycles. That should fix that problem.

The BATF has long thought they don't have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

America would be a better place without them.

when the bottom line is he tanked on the single payer national health care system.

You can't tank what you never promised. Only Kucinich in 2008 campaign wanted a single payer national health care system. Obama (and Hillary) proposed a minimum national health care option to compete with the private sector since it has been shown that there is very little competition in metro areas. Kucinich roundly criticized Hillary, Obama and the other Dem candidates for their refusal to do a national health care system.

Still, the option was quickly dropped by Baucus (one of the biggest recipients of health care dollars) early in the Senate committee process

AS for the list, it is a little surprising to me. He actually got much more done than I thought he did.

Owlman wrote:

when the bottom line is he tanked on the single payer national health care system.

You can't tank what you never promised. Only Kucinich in 2008 campaign wanted a single payer national health care system. Obama (and Hillary) proposed a minimum national health care option to compete with the private sector since it has been shown that there is very little competition in metro areas. Kucinich roundly criticized Hillary, Obama and the other Dem candidates for their refusal to do a national health care system.

Still, the option was quickly dropped by Baucus (one of the biggest recipients of health care dollars) early in the Senate committee process

AS for the list, it is a little surprising to me. He actually got much more done than I thought he did.

[youtube]fpAyan1fXCE[/youtube]

but even if he didn't intend to have a single payer, what he lead on was a non profit option that would provide competitive if not cheaper rates which justified the mandate for universal coverage.

The mandate was unrelated to the non-profit (govt.) option (the latter of which I wish had been implemented). He actually didn't plan on the mandate, but he did plan on the option. Hillary wanted the mandate. There was a debate in which she criticized him for not having a mandate but making it volunteer instead (which I thought was a little naive at the time). The mandate was not decided on until it went into committee at which time they felt to not get flak from the insurance companies for taking their ability to pick and choose healthy people (while dropping sick and elderly), they needed the mandate.

I believe a few years ago (perhaps in one of his books) he said that we would have to take steps to get to single payer system, but that wasn't the plan he ran on for President.

10ac wrote:I heard recently about a guy with a carry permit in a bit of road rage shot at a guy on a bicycle. That's terrible. Out of the millions that have carry premits one guy tries to shoot a bicylist. I say make it illegal to shoot people on bicycles. That should fix that problem.

I disagree... They need to be shot.

Fast & Furious will be Obama's 2nd term scandal. All two term Presidents have one.

[flash=][/flash]

sardis wrote:

10ac wrote:I heard recently about a guy with a carry permit in a bit of road rage shot at a guy on a bicycle. That's terrible. Out of the millions that have carry premits one guy tries to shoot a bicylist. I say make it illegal to shoot people on bicycles. That should fix that problem.

I disagree... They need to be shot.

Agreed. All people on bicycles not on the sidewalk need to be shot. Get the fuck out of my way!

Heh. Bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalk in NYC. Too many pedestrians.

Jungle Rat wrote:[flash=][/flash]

sardis wrote:

10ac wrote:I heard recently about a guy with a carry permit in a bit of road rage shot at a guy on a bicycle. That's terrible. Out of the millions that have carry premits one guy tries to shoot a bicylist. I say make it illegal to shoot people on bicycles. That should fix that problem.

I disagree... They need to be shot.

Agreed. All people on bicycles not on the sidewalk need to be shot. Get the fuck out of my way!

I agree with Rat's agreement with Sardis. I'm doing 70 in a 45 and some clown with a funny hat and flashing lights is in my way because he's too chickenshit to be an adult and drive wherever he's going.

And on a semi-related note, I was able to hit 136 on I-10 on the bridge between Lafayette and Baton Rouge last week. It was about 6:30 in the morning and traffic was about as light as you can get on that stretch of interstate. I'm thankful that there wasn't any fog. Kind of rainy, though. Thank god for the performance package.

After we kill all the fuckheads on bicycles we need to take a look at those dorks riding those little mopeds.

And on a semi-related note, I was able to hit 136 on I-10 on the bridge between Lafayette and Baton Rouge last week. It was about 6:30 in the morning and traffic was about as light as you can get on that stretch of interstate. I'm thankful that there wasn't any fog. Kind of rainy, though. Thank god for the performance package.

There was recently a 40-car pile-up in Lousisana due to fog. Two died. A friend of mine worked the scene. Said it was the worst he's seen.

Two dead, 61 injured in 40-vehicle New Orleans pileup on busy interstate

Drivers said they drove into thick smoke or fog that abruptly limited visibility


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z1i3CcMDl7