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[eCat]

its pretty easy to tell the difference between scotches I think but I'm also at a point where I might as well drink gasoline as scotch given how I feel the next morning.

I bought some good scotch for relatives that were visiting over the holidays because I didn't something a little better than the usual fare.

I will never have a sophisticated enough palate to do that with Vodka.

[AlabamAlum]

"Is it worth it?" is always relative to the financial wherewithal of the purchaser.

If $200 more is a goodly percentage of your weekly funds, and its loss causes concern or alters buying other things of higher importance on the Maslowian scale, then, no, it's not worth it. If $200 is such a small percentage that it's loss is nearly irrelevant, then the answer is, it depends on the scotch. The same is true with high-end meals and, well, everything else.

It reminds me of Michael Jordan, who would sometimes bet $75,000 on a golf game, and how aghast people were at hearing that. Jordan has a net worth of around a billion dollars and $75k is somewhere around one-13 thousandths of his worth. If your net worth is 500,000, one-13 thousandths is around $38. (Forgive me if the math is off, no coffee yet).


So, it depends.

For me, of relatively secure financial means, but certainly not rich, I keep several bottles of good scotch for special occasions, but my "daily drinker" is a $45 bottle of Gelnfiddich 12.

[hedge]

I bought some bottles of wine at the wine shop this past weekend anywhere from $45 to $85. Tried a couple of them and they were good. Then on the way home, we stopped at Trader Joe's. They were having a wine sampling and we of course partook. Ended up buying a couple of cases, one of them was $3.99 a bottle, the other was $4.99 a bottle. So for the same price I paid for a couple of bottles at the wine shop, I got two cases at Trader Joe's. It gave me pause. Was there a difference b/w the more expensive wine and the Trader Joe's wine? Yes. Was it worth that difference? I'm not sure. But I'm definitely switching to the Trader Joe's at least Monday thru Thursday...

[eCat]

"Is it worth it?" is always relative to the financial wherewithal of the purchaser.

If $200 more is a goodly percentage of your weekly funds, and its loss causes concern or alters buying other things of higher importance on the Maslowian scale, then, no, it's not worth it. If $200 is such a small percentage that it's loss is nearly irrelevant, then the answer is, it depends on the scotch. The same is true with high-end meals and, well, everything else.

It reminds me of Michael Jordan, who would sometimes bet $75,000 on a golf game, and how aghast people were at hearing that. Jordan has a net worth of around a billion dollars and $75k is somewhere around one-13 thousandths of his worth. If your net worth is 500,000, one-13 thousandths is around $38. (Forgive me if the math is off, no coffee yet).


So, it depends.

For me, of relatively secure financial means, but certainly not rich, I keep several bottles of good scotch for special occasions, but my "daily drinker" is a $45 bottle of Gelnfiddich 12.

its also priorities though. I believe I'm at a point where I can afford a daily drinker of $45 bourbon, but my upbringing by depression era parents won't allow me such a luxury.

thank god porn is free on the internet now. I was really struggling with that one.

[Cletus]

We ate at a sushi restaurant called Shuko the other weekend, my buddy spotted Thomas Keller eating at the counter with some buddies. I would never have recognized him, but we figured it was him b/c when he left, the chef was bowing to him and being acting humble. After he left, we asked the chef if it was Keller and he confirmed. It seemed like there was an air of relief and happiness after he left, b/c he had been very complimentary (we overheard him talking to the chef as left the restaurant). For my buddy, spotting Keller was probably more exciting than if it had been Mick Jagger or some such...

There is a chef here named Michael Carlson who's got a really good restaurant called Schwa. When Charlie Trotter was celebrating his restaurant's 20th anniversary (Trotter's was the beginning of the new fine dining thing in the US so his place was a big deal), he had all the big time chefs from around the world in town - Ferran Adria, Thomas Keller, Grant Achatz, Heston Blumenthal, etc - and asked Schwa to do a private dinner for them. The stress made Carlson lose his fucking mind and, after the dinner was done, he went on a three day coke bender and then closed his place for a year. He got his shit together and has been open for awhile but he said that the pressure of cooking one meal for those guys was too much and almost killed him.

[AlabamAlum]

eCat,

True, we are often programmed by our upbringing.

The thing is, with you, I just don't think the bourbon is your thing; you readily spend a lot on cabins and guns and motorcycles and electronics and other things that interest you. If you have a hard time doing $45 with bourbon, it's probably because it doesn't flood the same level of dopamine in the old old brain pan as the other items I've mentioned.

[eCat]

eCat,

True, we are often programmed by our upbringing.

The thing is, with you, I just don't think the bourbon is your thing; you readily spend a lot on cabins and guns and motorcycles and other things that interest you. If you have a hard time doing $45 with bourbon, it's probably because it doesn't flood the same level of dopamine in the old old brain pan as the other items I've mentioned.

absolutely agree

[Cletus]

I welcome AA into the debate as far as it relates to high end scotch. It is undoubtedly true that high end scotch is qualitatively different from cheap scotch, in a way far more profound than with, say, vodka. But the question is, is that difference really worth hundreds of dollars? Is it really that big a difference? Again, I say if somebody is willing to pay it, then it's worth it to them. Same with wines. Yes, a 1947 Petrus is going to be way different than a bottle of Boone's Farm, but is it several thousands of dollars worth of difference? Obviously it is, b/c there are people out there willing to pay it.

I know Cletus is somewhat of a foodie, he has said several times how much he enjoys going to Alinea in Chicago, which is (from what I can tell) somewhat along the lines of Per Se. I enjoyed the meal I had there, with the "courses" consisting of literally one bite (a small bite in most cases) of some magical mixture of ingredients they had created thru alchemy, but there's no way in hell I would pay that kind of money to eat that kind of food on anything approaching a regular basis. And by regular basis, I mean maybe two or three times in my life. But evidently it's worth it to Cletus and obviously to many other folks, so again, if somebody is willing to pay the price, for whatever, then by definition it's "worth it"...

Alinea once every few years or so is enough for me. My wife and I will go to a place like Alinea, Grace, French Laundry, etc once every year or so and that's fine. If my wife liked it more, we'd probably do it more often. There are no shortage of these really good, high end creative places in Chicago but I've only been to a couple of them because she's not a huge fan. But, every now and then, getting something truly world class for $500 a head is nice. And, I don't have to go more than 10 minutes or so from my house which is also nice.

[eCat]

We ate at a sushi restaurant called Shuko the other weekend, my buddy spotted Thomas Keller eating at the counter with some buddies. I would never have recognized him, but we figured it was him b/c when he left, the chef was bowing to him and being acting humble. After he left, we asked the chef if it was Keller and he confirmed. It seemed like there was an air of relief and happiness after he left, b/c he had been very complimentary (we overheard him talking to the chef as left the restaurant). For my buddy, spotting Keller was probably more exciting than if it had been Mick Jagger or some such...

There is a chef here named Michael Carlson who's got a really good restaurant called Schwa. When Charlie Trotter was celebrating his restaurant's 20th anniversary (Trotter's was the beginning of the new fine dining thing in the US so his place was a big deal), he had all the big time chefs from around the world in town - Ferran Adria, Thomas Keller, Grant Achatz, Heston Blumenthal, etc - and asked Schwa to do a private dinner for them. The stress made Carlson lose his fucking mind and, after the dinner was done, he went on a three day coke bender and then closed his place for a year. He got his shit together and has been open for awhile but he said that the pressure of cooking one meal for those guys was too much and almost killed him.

Those chefs seem pretty high strung - I remember the French chef that committed suicide because he lost a star rating

[hedge]

"The stress made Carlson lose his fucking mind and, after the dinner was done, he went on a three day coke bender and then closed his place for a year... the pressure of cooking one meal for those guys was too much and almost killed him."

That happened to Stu on several occasions when we lived in SF, on account of the pressure of it being Wednesday...

[AlabamAlum]

We ate at a sushi restaurant called Shuko the other weekend, my buddy spotted Thomas Keller eating at the counter with some buddies. I would never have recognized him, but we figured it was him b/c when he left, the chef was bowing to him and being acting humble. After he left, we asked the chef if it was Keller and he confirmed. It seemed like there was an air of relief and happiness after he left, b/c he had been very complimentary (we overheard him talking to the chef as left the restaurant). For my buddy, spotting Keller was probably more exciting than if it had been Mick Jagger or some such...

There is a chef here named Michael Carlson who's got a really good restaurant called Schwa. When Charlie Trotter was celebrating his restaurant's 20th anniversary (Trotter's was the beginning of the new fine dining thing in the US so his place was a big deal), he had all the big time chefs from around the world in town - Ferran Adria, Thomas Keller, Grant Achatz, Heston Blumenthal, etc - and asked Schwa to do a private dinner for them. The stress made Carlson lose his fucking mind and, after the dinner was done, he went on a three day coke bender and then closed his place for a year. He got his shit together and has been open for awhile but he said that the pressure of cooking one meal for those guys was too much and almost killed him.

Those chefs seem pretty high strung - I remember the French chef that committed suicide because he lost a star rating

They are really more like artists than 'cooks'. Wildly creative and put themselves and others under great pressure. Think Van Gogh with a ladle.

[crashcourse]

I think your getting ripped off on your scotch at 45 a pop.

wife just go back from napa valley last night with 3 bottles ready for the weekend

its nice to be a bachelor for 5 days but it would get old quick longer then that

[hedge]

The staff at Shuko's were visibly on edge, but when we got there Keller was finishing up and he evidently enjoyed his meal, which I'm sure had been apparent while he was eating it. Plus I'm sure it was a little different with him coming by himself (with some friends) to that guy's own restaurant rather than having to plan and prepare a whole meal and serve it off-site to a who's who of restaurant royalty. I guess I wouldn't say they were on edge, but you could tell their adrenaline was up a couple of notches higher than usual. And there was definitely a sense of relief and perhaps even triumph after he had left. I found myself feeling gratified, even though I don't really care about such things, that we were sitting two seats down from where this guy had just been eating with the same chef who had prepared his food preparing it for us right in front of us. I'm sure it meant way more to my buddy. In fact, he said it was the greatest dining experience of his life, all things considered, and I was happy for him and happy to enjoy it with him. That part of it was way better than the actual meal to me...

[AlabamAlum]

I think your getting ripped off on your scotch at 45 a pop.

wife just go back from napa valley last night with 3 bottles ready for the weekend

its nice to be a bachelor for 5 days but it would get old quick longer then that

Liquor is expensive in Alabama. Sin taxes. It's less in many other states. As far as being "ripped off" or favoring some other brand, I defend your right to be wrong. This is America, after all.

[Saint]

Some of that Trader Joe's stuff is swill. Better suited to polishing shoes.

I don't have a refined palate, as far as I know, and, regardless of price, I wouldn't enjoy a high-end restaurant because it's ultimately just a few mouthfuls of food. I think my ideal dining experience would be to get baked tableside at a Brazilian steakhouse, where they would bring me, in addition to grilled meats and salads, more weed, wine, chocolate, tobacco and coffee. And then roll me away from the table so I could lay on my side and fart.

[sardis]

Cletus, what are your recommendations for downtown Chicago. Not in that $500 a person level because I wouldn't really appreciate it, but more in the $100-$150 a person area.

[AlabamAlum]

Applebee's

[hedge]

"Some of that Trader Joe's stuff is swill. Better suited to polishing shoes."

Agreed. I'd say most, actually. But the stuff we sampled was pretty good. Not great by any means, but perfectly suitable for a week night and just as good if not better than many $10-$20 bottles from Harris Teeter. And whatever, when you're spending $36 on a case (which we probably go thru a bottle a night, which really isn't that much for two people), that's good for 3 weeks worth of weeknights. I like it...

[hedge]

" I think my ideal dining experience would be to get baked tableside at a Brazilian steakhouse, where they would bring me, in addition to grilled meats and salads, more weed, wine, chocolate, tobacco and coffee."

That's what they do at Shuko, they have two menus, you order one and they bring the dishes out to you one at a time. I do like to select the individual rolls and sashimis most of the time, but it was nice just having it brought to me without having to choose. They know what they're doing and it was all good. Plus we definitely smoked weed right before we went (and drank too much saki, but whatever), so that made it even better...

[Cletus]

Cletus, what are your recommendations for downtown Chicago. Not in that $500 a person level because I wouldn't really appreciate it, but more in the $100-$150 a person area.

My favorite place these days is Avec. It's very small and no reservations but it's worth it. Publican is very good if you like beer and pork. Girl and the Goat is a place run by a former Top Chef winner. It's great but a hard reservation. For a party of 2, a seat at the bar is doable and a good time. Nico Osteria is a newish Italian seafood place and very good. If you are willing to stray a bit away from downtown, there are lots of great spots. Boka in Lincoln Park, right next door to Alinea, is fantastic.