The Goat Pen

sardis wrote:When you rely too much on the rich for tax revenue, you put yourself at danger of steep reductions during a recession. A broader tax base with lower and middle also paying is more stable.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45650569

the lower and middle class are more likely to be the ones drawing out though, not paying in

sardis wrote:When you rely too much on the rich for tax revenue, you put yourself at danger of steep reductions during a recession. A broader tax base with lower and middle also paying is more stable.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45650569

That could be the case except for the current time where the rich are paying some of the lowest taxes that they have in the past 50 years.

True; however, the poor and middle are also paying lower than they ever have. The Bush tax cut reduced high earners taxes by $70 billion a year, but it also reduced lower and middle folk by $130 billion a year. If you try to compensate the missing $130 billion by throwing it on the rich as well as the $70 billion, you have a serious top heavy fiscal issue since earnings above $250k are the most volatile in a recession.

sardis wrote:True; however, the poor and middle are also paying lower than they ever have. The Bush tax cut reduced high earners taxes by $70 billion a year, but it also reduced lower and middle folk by $130 billion a year. If you try to compensate the missing $130 billion by throwing it on the rich as well as the $70 billion, you have a serious top heavy fiscal issue since earnings above $250k are the most volatile in a recession.

Only if it leads to a decrease over time in the exponential rise in income of the top 5%, something that there is no evidence of occurring. Of course, that's not the proposal in the first place, is it. What is being suggested is offsetting the payroll tax extension, which has nothing to do with the Bush tax cuts.

just in case you dont know you can go to https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions and sign petitions etc in (i'm sure a vain) attempt to influence policy or at least let the scumbags in charge know how you feel.

Look at the last number in the graph
[youtube]kunT0Pv5xeE[/youtube]

Faux Knews!

NBC New last night brought in a team of their political correspondents and the head of some national polling to discuss the candidates.

They pointed out based on the polling that the GOP has a serious problem.

Newt Gingrich can win the GOP nomination but can't beat Obama

Mitt Romney can't win the GOP nomination but would beat Obama

if there is a silver lining to this horrible financial crisis, its that for people who were able to stay above board in the housing market, refinancing has been a nice windfall.

I bought my house in 2001 with a 30 year 80/15 loan, the second loan at like 9%. At the time with 5% down that was about the best you were going to get.

In 2008, just right after the election , mortgage loans were around 5% ( I can't remember exactly what they were) but at any rate, I was able to get out from under the 21 years left on my loan and swap it in for a 15 year loan and pay like $25 less a month. I took the same kind of hit that everyone else did on their homes, but over the years I've made alot of improvements including adding square feet of living space so I had the equity to still qualify.

Last week I got a call from my bank saying they'd refinance me with no closing costs at less than 4.5% and now for roughly $50 less a month, I've gone from a 12 year loan to a 10 year loan.

Unfortunately during that time, both my property taxes and insurance have gone up so I don't see any of these savings in the overall cost of my monthly house payment but having a 10 year mortgage actually seems manageable - like I can really pay this thing off.

When I first walked into a 30 year loan the whole concept of paying it off just seemed to be in the abstract. Now with a bit of luck I might be able to have 10 - 12 years or so of just dumping cash into my 401K.

I consider that good fortune and since I have this karma guilt thing going on, I've been donating regularly to a couple of local charities in the hopes that a big pile of shit doesn't fall on my head.

Owlman wrote:

sardis wrote:True; however, the poor and middle are also paying lower than they ever have. The Bush tax cut reduced high earners taxes by $70 billion a year, but it also reduced lower and middle folk by $130 billion a year. If you try to compensate the missing $130 billion by throwing it on the rich as well as the $70 billion, you have a serious top heavy fiscal issue since earnings above $250k are the most volatile in a recession.

Only if it leads to a decrease over time in the exponential rise in income of the top 5%, something that there is no evidence of occurring. Of course, that's not the proposal in the first place, is it. What is being suggested is offsetting the payroll tax extension, which has nothing to do with the Bush tax cuts.

It does in that they want to raise tax rates for the one percent to pay for it, a very unstable revenue stream. Freezing gov't salaries is a more definite approach.

a very unstable revenue stream

ROFL. Much more stable than most other sources.

For eCat:

How Ron Paul could win nomination


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/signal/ron- ... 10338.html

RP has made a huge investment in Iowa and to some extent New Hampshire.

By all accounts now its possible he could win Iowa or place a close second. That momentum would carry him into New Hampshire.

Unfortunately for RP, after that I'm afraid his momentum ends - unless something unexpected happens.

Still, its a remarkable achievement for someone. Ron Paul has created a new base of voters who now put liberty and fiscal responsibility as their vocal points over legislating morals or promoting war. That will go a long ways as being a thorn in the side of Neocons and RINO's.

Also, believe it or not, Ron Paul really hasn't been vetted as a presidential candidate. Because up until the past year, his ideas were considered so out of mainstream, no one really had to bring up his past .

He had a newsletter written on his behalf in the late 70' s and early 80's where he didn't intervene and they put out some pretty racist stuff regarding the riots in L.A., not to mention an ongoing dialog about Israel , which as we all know, if you even mention you are labeled anti-semitic. On top of that he chose to be the key note speaker at the John Birch society. I know little about the John Birch society but apparently they accept some very fringe groups as members, like Neo Nazi's and other White Supremacists. Not to mention David Duke writing about his support of Ron Paul. If Ron Paul were to win Iowa, about 20 seconds later you're going to see a photo op picture that David Duke took with Ron Paul all over the airwaves.

That will be the beginning of an avalanche of attacks on him and he'll do little in the form of damage control to contain it mainly because while he'll distance himself as much as he can from the fringe supporters he has, his whole belief system (and consequently the people that support him) is tied to understanding those people have a right to support him (well - all but the convicted felons who can't vote for him anyways). To reject those people would be to reject their freedom of speech and he won't do that.

Ummm, ok. "Maturity and intensity?" Riiiiiight...

Nearly 50 years after it opened as a sanctuary for white students in a county that resisted school desegregation to the very end, the Fuqua School wanted badly to prove its racist days were over.

So in 2008 the school’s president, Ruth Murphy, sat down with Charles Williams, a freshman from the local public high school. Football coaches had arranged the meeting. Williams happened to be a quarterback with a powerful throwing arm who could burst through tacklers. He was faster and stronger than boys years older.

The two met in Murphy’s office and considered each other.

Murphy, a sparrow of a woman, also felt a bit unsure. “Here was this big strong guy. He was only 14, but he looked like a 25-year-old drug dealer,” she recalled in an interview. When asked later what she meant by that description, Murphy acknowledged that it was a poor choice of words but said that she meant to convey his “maturity and intensity.”

I, personally, haven't yet worked out how I feel about him going to the school.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu ... print.html

He's got the maturity and the intesity of a drug dealer.

LOL...efz

Just remember... Pookie used to be a drug dealer too.

"Scotty, help me!"

They ain't all big and imposing. Or black.

Tell that to racist school administrators in Central Virginia...

the Daily Show had a good piece last night cracking on Gingrich's veiled racism on poor kids being janitors of their school.

"veiled" is being generous.