The Goat Pen

Yes that is the ideal world - one with no guns and no way to get one. But you neglected to cite my folllow up which was how I think we could get down that path. It’s not about a ban but the combo of financial incentives to get existing guns out of circulation, tighter regulations to make new guns much harder to obtain, and a resulting culture where guns are a lot less common, gun violence is reduced, and the idea that a guy living in the suburbs needs an arsenal “to protect himself” is thought of as idiotic.

A straight up ban won’t work but it is possible to change the barbaric culture we have as long as have patience and the proper incentives and laws. As hedge said, customs change all the time. I’m not as optimistic about the pace of this change but I don’t think future generations have to be or will be bound to the stupid customs and ideas of this generation.

There will always be guns as long as the Democrats insist on smuggling them to cartels.

Maybe instead of obtaining guns, Americans will flock to self esteem seminars, conflict resolution classes, yoga/aromatherapy retreats, healing circles, and holistic wellness meditations. That will usher in a new utopian era of enlightenment and inclusiveness.

It would certainly go a lot further towards attaining enlightenment and inclusiveness - two highly worthy endeavors that for some reason you seem to feel the need to mock and belittle - than obtaining guns. Once again, your attempt at sarcasm comes up painfully short...

I mock liberals protestations of enlightenment and inclusiveness only because they are so profoundly neither.

Wrong again...

Cletus wrote:If change happens, it will take generations. Our culture is broken and fixing something like that takes time.

I agree. More than two genders, eating tide pods, having to build 10 different bathrooms, safe spaces, and some sense of entitlement where everything should be given and not earned......Yeah shit really does need to change.

The Industrial Revolution came along and made us all pussies.

BigRedMan wrote:

Cletus wrote:If change happens, it will take generations. Our culture is broken and fixing something like that takes time.

I agree. More than two genders, eating tide pods, having to build 10 different bathrooms, safe spaces, and some sense of entitlement where everything should be given and not earned......Yeah shit really does need to change.

Agreed. And women oohing and aahing over gun accessories and dudes acting out movie shoot-em-ups on NRA-TV ain't the way my tobacco-farming grandparents looked at gun ownership either. Pussification is everywhere, my friend.

BigRedMan wrote:

Cletus wrote:If change happens, it will take generations. Our culture is broken and fixing something like that takes time.

I agree. More than two genders, eating tide pods, having to build 10 different bathrooms, safe spaces, and some sense of entitlement where everything should be given and not earned......Yeah shit really does need to change.

Yeah. Creating inanities like “womyn” instead of “women,” “herstory” instead of “history,” “Latinex” instead “Latina” and “Latino,” ”LGBT-QXTNRW....” and every other letter in the alphabet to include Martians into bestiality, calling everything you disagree with “racist/sexist/homophobic,” makes you “enlightened” nowadays.

Dicks Sporting Goods , along with WalMart are being sued by a young man under 21 for their refusal to sell him a gun

While the second amendment is focused on the federal government limiting gun ownership, federal law is a bit murky on age discrimination for under 21 - however many states have laws against it and in some cases where the states do not, local ordinance do

Broward County is one such place.

So those Parkland people didn't have to march in Washington, or even the state......

At any rate, unless the federal government steps in, which they aren't going to do because it will be overturned in court, under 21 is at the state level.

interesting times where people believe its OK to tell a baker he has to bake a cake for a person against his religion but see no problem demanding a store not sell a gun to an adult. Yea, I know - a cake doesn't kill anyone so public safety overrides your desire for justice in the world.

Meanwhile, 11 more kids will die today from texting and driving.

Saint wrote:

BigRedMan wrote:

Cletus wrote:If change happens, it will take generations. Our culture is broken and fixing something like that takes time.

I agree. More than two genders, eating tide pods, having to build 10 different bathrooms, safe spaces, and some sense of entitlement where everything should be given and not earned......Yeah shit really does need to change.

Agreed. And women oohing and aahing over gun accessories and dudes acting out movie shoot-em-ups on NRA-TV ain't the way my tobacco-farming grandparents looked at gun ownership either. Pussification is everywhere, my friend.

There is probably some truth to that, although I've yet to meet any women that are impressed with gun accessories or guns for that matter. I know they are out there, a bunch of 'em in Alaska, Montana, Wyoming ..not so much in the midwest.

But your grandparents probably owned guns based on a limited budget - a single shot or double barrel shotgun for bird hunting, a single shot or semi-auto .22 for squirrel, rabbit and a .38 S&W revolver if they felt that need for a nightstand gun. Their budget and availability dictated what they bought. They didn't have a Cabelas down the road or even a local mom and pop gun shop. They probably had a true value hardware store that had a small hunting section with some guns covered in dust in the display case and on the wall.

Would my grandfather own an AR-15? no, probably not but he wouldn't have owned 2 TVs, a John Deere gator or a smart phone either. Disposable income, the cost of true surplus military rifles along with the banning of cheaper imports is part of the reason people own AR-15s. I can buy a nice Semi-Auto Browning 12 Gauge Shotgun for $900 or I can buy an AR 15 for $499. An AR-15 is like a multi-tool of guns. You can adapt it to meet a wider range of needs than any other long gun out there.

What kind of needs?

hedge wrote:What kind of needs?

take the people that say an AR-15 isn't a deer hunting rifle. Put a 3X9 40mm scope on it and you have a very effective hunting rifle. Now they might say .223 doesn't have the stopping power of a standard deer rifle but that doesn't mean that a shot to the location you should hit a deer won't kill it in a merciful way.

as it is, its an effective coyote or dog (not suggesting anyone should shoot a pet, I'm talking about feral dogs that attack cattle)

put a night scope or a 1X scope with a flashlight and now you've got a wild boar gun - and you absolutely need semi-auto to hunt wild boar - IMO you do anyways.

finally , put a 3X9 or 3X12 scope with bi-pod and you got a varmint gun - 300 yards easily. They call them varmint guns because typically they are long distance shots for prairie dogs, ground hogs, - animals that aren't going to let you get close or will venture far from a den.

I would not choose to use an AR15 as a home defense rifle. And I'm not going to bullshit anyone to say it would be my choice to hunt, but that is because have the luxury of choosing a gun for specific task and not have to look for one size fits all.

That's where the "tactical" part of the AR15 comes in handy. With the picatinny rails a person can quickly configure, for lack of a better word, the gun to be a multi-purpose gun compared to say the traditional bolt action. Its not a radical change and I'm not going to say its justification to own an AR15 but its not a one dimensional man hunter that people make it out to be.

hedge wrote:What kind of needs?

Think of all the different ways you can murder people with it. It’s a modern miracle.

People buy AR-15s because they think they look cool. Handguns are the murder weapon of choice by a huge margin. You can't hide a rifle easily, and chances are as a criminal, you arent going to be needing to storm a compound as an infantry rifleman to murder somebody, nor is a criminal typically going to try and be a sniper from long range or whatever ridiculous tv shit.

True. Handguns ought to go away too.

at least if Democrats went after handguns it would show they care more about loss of life than when it just happens to suburban white kids.

Watch John Oliver's recent episode. It's the idiots who wrap themselves up in this NRA lifestyle to whom I was referring. But it's not just that, it's nearly everything today. People drive these giant luxury pickup trucks and wear $300 outfits from Cabela's when they go hunting and post their pictures all over Facebook and listen to gay-ass fake country music. Where will it all end?

Saint wrote:Watch John Oliver's recent episode. It's the idiots who wrap themselves up in this NRA lifestyle to whom I was referring. But it's not just that, it's nearly everything today. People drive these giant luxury pickup trucks and wear $300 outfits from Cabela's when they go hunting and post their pictures all over Facebook and listen to gay-ass fake country music. Where will it all end?

not everyone can drive a '74 Nova, drinking PBR and crankin out Skynrd

For the record I drive a 27 year old pickup truck.