The Goat Pen

Word is guy shoots cop then himself.

AugustWest wrote:I thought Crow said Obama would usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity and all the peoples of the world would love us because Obama is president instead of the hated george Bush and that Obama would overturn the patriot act and we would be more free than ever before.

I don't think he said that at all (although it is Crow, who is absolutely schizophrenic in the way he states his beliefs). Despite this, I think the thrust of his statement is that Obama would be a lot more trusted by our allies than George H.W. Bush. And except for Pakistan, that is probably the case.

I don't think I voiced it but I thought Obama would overturn the patriot act, hell, he said he shut down Guatanamo and end the wars.

I thought the Patriot Act was toast too. That (and a relatively balanced Supreme Court) were my major pushes for the Obama victory (well, McCain 2.0 was not someone I was comfortable with...so it's not like Barack had competition for my vote, actually).

bin Laden is dead, but he helped erode more Constitutional privileges/protections than any collection of Supreme Court rulings over the last 40 years.

/non-scientific rant packaged like it came from empirical data

when was the last time a US President lessened the ability of the government to interfere in the day to day life of Americans?

James K Polk!

scary isnt it?

look into SOPA if you havent already.

AugustWest wrote:when was the last time a US President lessened the ability of the government to interfere in the day to day life of Americans?

The FISA Court by Jimmy Carter?

I'd really have to defer to Owl on that one, actually. That's me pulling shit from my grey matter and I'm not sure how that whole arrangement played out.

[youtube]C7vDHIFPg2E[/youtube]

AugustWest wrote:when was the last time a US President lessened the ability of the government to interfere in the day to day life of Americans?

I would say all have, while at the same time limiting others. In the post-Watergate frenzy though, there were severe limits placed on the ability of the feds to intrude into the daily lives, so to answer the question, probably Ford and Carter. Seeing how both are disliked, especially Carter, perhaps the American public likes the idea of govt intrusion.

Bklyn wrote: bin Laden is dead, but he helped erode more Constitutional privileges/protections than any collection of Supreme Court rulings over the last 40 years.

/non-scientific rant packaged like it came from empirical data

I have to question that statement, since the Patriot is essentially the same as before. I don't expect a President to do everything that he says he's going to do when they were running. The question for me is did they change because they were just lying when they said it to get elected or did they change based on the facts that they were able to obtain when they became President. If the latter, then I don't have a problem with it. This was my belief with the first President Bush. Fine, run on not raising taxes. But if the situation warrants it, then do it. Ignoring the facts of the situation and trying to stick with some ideological belief made when you didn't have all the information you have currently is what makes for a bad President.

are you saying the vice president had no idea of the economic status of the country while he was running for president?

I liked Daddy Bush - I believe him to be an honorable man - from his unconditional support of Reagan even though he clearly didn't believe in his economics to his rejection of the domino theory of the middle east.

The only thing I hold against him was propagating our species.

Looking back I think Ford was a good president as well.

I haved mixed emotions about Carter. I think he had integrity, but I also believe his policies weren't in sync with what the nation needed or wanted. I can remember him appearing on TV wearing a sweater asking us to turn down our thermostats to 65.

AugustWest wrote:are you saying the vice president had no idea of the economic status of the country while he was running for president?

Seriously. Do you think that economic conditions stayed the same all 4 years he was President???

I can remember him appearing on TV wearing a sweater asking us to turn down our thermostats to 65.

All in the name of conservation. He also dropped the speed limit on fed highways and kept daylight savings time, in response to the gas crisis. He also proposed a massive shift to alternative fuel options (didn't get the last one through a democratic Congress)

Just a bit too far:

Calif. prison psychologist accused of faking rape


http://news.yahoo.com/calif-prison-psyc ... 23257.html

Yeah, a bit.

Speaking of Patriot Act and Gitmo

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n24/mohammed-elgorani/diary

Owlman wrote:

I can remember him appearing on TV wearing a sweater asking us to turn down our thermostats to 65.

All in the name of conservation. He also dropped the speed limit on fed highways and kept daylight savings time, in response to the gas crisis. He also proposed a massive shift to alternative fuel options (didn't get the last one through a democratic Congress)

all of those wrong decisions, IMO

Owlman wrote:

AugustWest wrote:are you saying the vice president had no idea of the economic status of the country while he was running for president?

Seriously. Do you think that economic conditions stayed the same all 4 years he was President???

Bush took office in 89. by '90 taxes were being raised. pretty sure Bush knew he was going to have to raise taxes when he said "read my lips".