The Goat Pen

whats really sad is we had more than a dozen children killed yesterday and as a country we are numb to it. The kill count didn't exceed Las Vegas so its just part of a 24 hour news cycle.

sardis wrote:

Cletus wrote:It's weird that the US has so many more mentally deranged people than everywhere else in the world.

Our kids are drugged up more than other countries

Our kids grow up in screwed up fatherless families more than other countries too.

aTm wrote:I've actually seen a couple places talk about the gun problem in the same breath as the opioids problem since yesterday, both with the ultimate conclusion opined that we need more stringent gun laws. Watching "news" is like watching a festival of morons, it's sickening to listen to these vacuous cocksuckers. Are you even listening to yourselves? Yeah, argue about gun control, but to even insinuate that it is in any way similar to the opioids crisis where we are talking about something that is heavily regulated, and then on the black market, outright illegal with stringent penalties. Does it stop people from dying? The two problems are not in any way similar. In fact comparing guns to opioids HURTS your argument because it is a crystal clear example of the ineptitude of government restrictions to have an impact on public public safety.

heard a guy talking on NPR - a Harvard professor no less - saying that violence has gone done in this country but people are defining violence to include issues like obesity and environment. It was so off the wall I had to turn it off. The competition to get competing arguments out to the masses on multiple platforms has diluted common sense and the bar for intelligent well reasoned "experts"

Politics has infested all kinds of information. For instance, every news organization was saying this is the 18th school shooting so far this year. The insinuation being (as Cletus did a few posts up) that there is one of these every other day, when that simply is false. Its bad enough that we have 2 or whatever in a month and a half, but they have to say there have been 18 by including incidents close to schools, suicides, accidental discharges where nobody got hurt, pellet gun incidents, etc in order to make the number big. What reason is there to do that other than sway the political viewpoint?

aTm wrote:Politics has infested all kinds of information. For instance, every news organization was saying this is the 18th school shooting so far this year. The insinuation being (as Cletus did a few posts up) that there is one of these every other day, when that simply is false. Its bad enough that we have 2 or whatever in a month and a half, but they have to say there have been 18 by including incidents close to schools, suicides, accidental discharges where nobody got hurt, pellet gun incidents, etc in order to make the number big. What reason is there to do that other than sway the political viewpoint?

whats the reason to include a description of the gun when reporting the shooting? This morning I was made aware of how many AR-15s are owned by Americans in this country following a report of the shooting. Nothing was said about people in the community including the administrators and student believing ahead of time this 19 year was more than capable of committing mass murder.

Collusion between the msm and the democratic party is much scarier than any school/mass shooting.

eCat wrote:whats the reason to include a description of the gun when reporting the shooting? This morning I was made aware of how many AR-15s are owned by Americans in this country following a report of the shooting. Nothing was said about people in the community including the administrators and student believing ahead of time this 19 year was more than capable of committing mass murder.

C'mon, we've heard every detail there is, including the kid who notified the FBI about the killer's Instagram message about being a "professional school shooter."

It's a reasonable question to ask: what can be done to keep a troubled teen like this from getting his hands on a AR-15 and a bag full of loaded magazines?

This kid publically said what he planned to do and was reported to the FBI 5 months ago. Damn.

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote:whats the reason to include a description of the gun when reporting the shooting? This morning I was made aware of how many AR-15s are owned by Americans in this country following a report of the shooting. Nothing was said about people in the community including the administrators and student believing ahead of time this 19 year was more than capable of committing mass murder.

C'mon, we've heard every detail there is, including the kid who notified the FBI about the killer's Instagram message about being a "professional school shooter."

It's a reasonable question to ask: what can be done to keep a troubled teen like this from getting his hands on a AR-15 and a bag full of loaded magazines?

yes we have, otherwise how would I know about the details. My point is the reporter chose to go with his report in a specific direction clearly aligning with gun control.

and what is reasonable to ask - what can be done to keep a troubled teen from killing someone. Why limit it to an AR-15 ? The child he stabs to death life is less important because the death isn't sensationalized?

AlabamAlum wrote:This kid publically said what he planned to do and was reported to the FBI 5 months ago. Damn.

"You can't expect the FBI to have someone follow up on every YouTube comment." is basically the general response to that. Because I guess confiscating every gun would be the easier, cheaper, sensible alternative than doing that.

This is very bad. Not only is there that, but you have the school warning everyone in the faculty about this kid, it seems you also have him actually shooting at a neighbor at some point alledgedly, every kid in the school seems to be like "Oh, that guy...yeah...big surprise...", and somebody said he was basically stalking a girl at the school?

So basically nobody in government is going to get off their ass and do anything anyway if they don't really need to even if they see the train coming out in the open from a mile away. But lets go ahead and add in a few more levels of hoops and maybe THEN we'll catch it...

[youtube]xJxwvZ5SE_c[/youtube]

There are over 300 million guns in in America. The reason is because a huge number of Americans want guns. Those guns and that appetite aren't going anywhere.

If guns are banned in 2020, there will still be 300,000,000 guns out there, plus a huge and unpleasant reaction from gun owners.

In 2030, there will still be 299,999,000 guns out there, more mass murders, and the huge and unpleasant reaction from gun owners will still be going on.

In 2040, there will still be 299,998,000 guns out there, even more mass murders, and the huge and unpleasant reaction from gun owners will still be going on.

In 2050, there will still be 299,997,000 guns out there, even more mass murders, and more huge and unpleasant reaction from gun owners will still be going on.

etc etc etc

eCat wrote:and what is reasonable to ask - what can be done to keep a troubled teen from killing someone. Why limit it to an AR-15 ? The child he stabs to death life is less important because the death isn't sensationalized?

Yeah, the child who is stabbed to death is less important.

You seem to have an affinity for the AR-15 and that's fine - I'd take one if someone gifted me one. I just wish that pimply-faced pos didn't own one. Maybe restricting assault weapon (sorry, that's what it is) sales to 21 year olds is a step in the right direction. Maybe not. It's still a reasonable question.

"The reason is because a huge number of Americans want guns."

Well, I guess you could characterize any number as "huge", but the fact is that most Americans do not own a gun, so gun owners are in the minority. And people who own multiple guns are in a much smaller minority. According to this article, 3% of Americans own half the guns. Not that it matters, but it does kinda put the lie to your claim of a "huge" number of Americans wanting to own guns...

https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in ... ee-charts/

You seem to have an affinity for the AR-15 and that's fine - I'd take one if someone gifted me one. I just wish that pimply-faced pos didn't own one. Maybe restricting assault weapon (sorry, that's what it is) sales to 21 year olds is a step in the right direction. Maybe not. It's still a reasonable question.

Assault weapons are not the issue anyway.

Yeah this guy used one, but he could have easily used other weapons and done the job. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold used assault ban era carbines, handguns, a shotgun, and homemade bombs at Colombine. Seung Hui Cho also used handguns at Virginia Tech. The reason AR-15's are being used has to to do with their steep rise in popularity, not because of any technical "because its better at killing people" reasons, especially in close range where the shooter is not a trained rifleman anyway. Las Vegas is the only spree killing I can think of offhand where the assult weapons argument has merit, due to the range, and capacity needed to cause that kind of long distance mayhem.

Logan bought a black powder rifle and pistol last week...

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote:and what is reasonable to ask - what can be done to keep a troubled teen from killing someone. Why limit it to an AR-15 ? The child he stabs to death life is less important because the death isn't sensationalized?

Yeah, the child who is stabbed to death is less important.

You seem to have an affinity for the AR-15 and that's fine - I'd take one if someone gifted me one. I just wish that pimply-faced pos didn't own one. Maybe restricting assault weapon (sorry, that's what it is) sales to 21 year olds is a step in the right direction. Maybe not. It's still a reasonable question.

I don't have an affinity for an AR-15, its just this logic is a knee jerk reaction. You're not serious about stopping people from being shot by guns, you're serious about a subset of that group and that is stopping school shootings and/or mass shootings

At the end of the day people shot by an assualt rifle makes up a very small percentage of all shootings. And to be honest, it shows racial bias, because in the next two days there were be 22 separate shootings in Chicago, and all of them I would bet , will not be by "assault rifle"


So if we want to narrow this down to a specific act - we want to stop school shootings - well now the solution is more straight forward and its not to ban anyone under the age of 21 from buying an assault rifle.

I mean we made the decision that we didn't want guns on planes , and we accomplished that without banning guns. Still we have 3,000 people die from terrorists taking over planes with box cutters, but that's another discussion.

so you can say its a reasonable question to ask, but its really not, its shows a bias toward protecting suburban white kid by focusing on the gun and not the solution.

Sorry. I meant to say, "YUGE."

According to this article, 3% of Americans own half the guns.

Let's do some quick math. (That's not my strong subject, so please feel free to correct me if my math is incorrect.)

According to the US Census Bureau, there were approximately 326,971,407 people in America on January 1, 2018.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-r ... -2018.html

3% of that number would be 9,809,142. Right?

According to the Congressional Research Service, as reported by NPR, there are approximately 300 million guns in America. https://www.npr.org/2016/01/05/46201746 ... he-numbers.

So if you divide 300 million guns by 9,809,142 (3% of the US population) you get 30.5, correct? So, hedge, are you saying that the average gun owner owns 30.5 guns? If so, that is preposterous.

yea, who would own 30 or more guns

that's crazy

Hey eCat, hedge thinks you and I own 30.5 guns.... heh.... It MUST be true, he saw it on the internets somewhere.

Cletus probably thinks we own flamethrowers and surface-to-air missiles too.