The Goat Pen

When did the GOP lose touch with reality? by David Frum

Didn't read it but is he implying that the Dems are in touch with it?

10ac wrote:

When did the GOP lose touch with reality? by David Frum

Didn't read it but is he implying that the Dems are in touch with it?

nope, he used to be a speech writer for Bush and hard core Bush apologist for them going off the reservation in terms of morality and legal issues. Now he has had some time to reflect, changed his position and has ostracized by the conservative network, including being fired as an associate for the American Enterprise Foundation, banned from Fox News to provide commentary and attacked by Rush Limbaugh.

Its a good read - he kind of goes back into the compassionate conservative that Bush pretended to be to get elected.

He isn't bulletproof - he claims to be a small government conservative but he doesn't come across like that pushing for a republican version of Obamacare.

Whether the R candidate is Mitt or Newt, I hope to God that Oprama is forced to debate them...

I'm think both are capable debaters but I don't think they'll beat up on Obama in any debate.

Romney has turned into John McCain, changing positions for the sole purpose of securing the nomination

Gingrich is prone to make some glib comment and be condescending - neither of which play well when the listening audience thinks you are insulting them

Amazin' how all the potential mistakes would come from one side.

And not just here, but the rags and talking heads only see flaws on one side.

Toemeesleather wrote:Amazin' how all the potential mistakes would come from one side.

And not just here, but the rags and talking heads only see flaws on one side.

probably much it of stems from notion that the group of GOP candidates are all seriously flawed.

The GOP base is fractured to the point that no candidate can represent the entire base which is why one is promoted one week and falls out of favor the next.

The Democrats are largely united in their positions and they don't have the burden of vetting their candidate.

They do have the burden of his record though.

Romney has turned into John McCain, changing positions for the sole purpose of securing the nomination

I think this was one of McCain's problems. His voting record was overall pretty conservative in 2000, but his rhetoric was much more independent. His voting record became even more conservative and his rhetoric after 2004 aped Bush's. This put him in a very difficult position.

The Democrats are largely united in their positions and they don't have the burden of vetting their candidate.

I agree they don't have the burden of vetting their candidate, I disagree that they are united in their positions. Many are very upset with Obama because he isn't nearly as liberal as they thought he would be or as they want him to be. I think that's also one of the points that Frum is making when he asks this question, "Did liberals really expect more?." Obama has been a very successful President in terms of the things he's gotten done but he gets no credit from the right and very little credit from the left. The only thing that has saved him is that despite certain liberal journalists pushing someone to run against Obama, it would be absolute suicide politically for someone to challenge him from the left.

Toemeesleather wrote:They do have the burden of his record though.

true, but unless Hillary mounts a run against him in the next month or so, then regardless of his record, the democrats have their man and they'll overwhelmingly throw their support at him.

If Gingrich , Romney or Paul get the nomination (well any of them for that matter) then there will be a significant portion of GOP and independents that just stay home and not vote. In the case of Romney I suspect there will be some that will vote for Obama because they don't see any difference between the two.

That was in part the issue of the republican based article I posted - that the republicans who should be focusing on compassionate conservatism are out of touch with the people they need to vote for them (other than Gingrich trying to steal latino votes from Obama).

With millions unemployed, homeless and suffering, it doesn't appear the GOP is willing to offer much to them and will let the nation come to a standstill as opposed to compromise.

I agree they don't have the burden of vetting their candidate, I disagree that they are united in their positions.

what are they going to do? Vote GOP?

Stay home. That's what many of them did in 2010.

Owlman wrote:Stay home. That's what many of them did in 2010.

they might, but unlike a percentage of the GOP voters who wouldn't care between GOP candidate X and Obama regarding the presidency, I'm inclined to believe that democratic voters are motivated to keep a GOP guy out of the white house. Too many reforms on the table that could be reversed, as well as a general attack on government services they rely on that would not happen with Obama.

That's not what I'm hearing. A lot depends on the 2010 Republican governors. Those that went too far have probably alienated much of the electorate.

On the other hand, the GOP has been pretty successful in trimming the rolls of qualified Democratic voters in many states (Virginia, Wisconsin etc.). That can make a clear difference in the election.

I admit I could be badly misjudging Democrats as they are a bit foreign to me, but I just think the GOP is so disjointed that the Democrats will appear to be fairly in line.

The idea is that Obama is so disliked that the independents and swing voters will go with the GOP candidate but if its Gingrich or Romney, for different reasons, they will alienate a % of that vote to where they are so vehemently against politics as usual they'll vote for Obama, especially when he stands up and talks about his conservative actions while accomplishing some liberal leaning wins like mortgage protection, student loans and he might even claim Obamacare.

ok, now its over, along with his marriage

An Atlanta businesswoman is breaking her silence, claiming she has been involved in a 13-year-long affair with Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain.

Over the Thanksgiving weekend, FOX 5 senior I-Team reporter Dale Russell sat down with Ginger White, who had a story to tell.

“I'm not proud,” White told Russell. “I didn't want to come out with this. I did not.”

White was worried a political tsunami was headed her way. So, she decided to head it off, by confessing she was involved in a 13-year-long affair with presidential hopeful Herman Cain.

“It was pretty simple,” White said. “It wasn't complicated. I was aware that he was married. And I was also aware I was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship.”

Ginger White says she met Herman Cain in the late 90s in Louisville, Kentucky, when as president of the National Restaurant Association, he made a presentation. She was impressed. She says they shared drinks afterwards and he invited her back to his hotel room.

“’I'd like to see you again,’” White said Cain told her. “’You are beautiful to me, and I would love for us to continue this friendship.’”

She says in his hotel room, he pulled out a calendar and invited her to meet him in Palm Springs. She accepted, and she says the affair began.

“He made it very intriguing,” White told FOX 5. “It was fun. It was something that took me away from my humdrum life at the time. And it was exciting.”

She says he gave her his newly-published book, Leadership is Common Sense, and he wrote: “Miss G, you have already made a 'big difference!’ Stay focused as you pursue your next destination."

She says during the next 13 years, he would fly her to cities where he was speaking and he lavished her with gifts. She says they often stayed at the Ritz Carlton in Buckhead and dined at The Four Seasons restaurant. She says he never harassed her, never treated her poorly, and was the same man you see on the campaign trail.

“Very much the same, very much confident, very much sure of himself,” White said, describing Cain. “Very arrogant in a playful sometimes way. Very, ah -- Herman Cain loves Herman Cain.”

Very good articles on the GOP and the DEM psyches. I will probably read them again this weekend to absorb some of the points and the history.

Cain was done before his chick-on-the-side stepped to the mic. I'm sure Gloria Allred will swoop in to help her get a little change to make that rent.

so democrats are in favor of extending the payroll tax cut and republicans are against it

I'm living in bizarro land

eCat wrote:

Saint wrote:

Owlman wrote:The poll has a chicken and egg problem. Is it FoxNews dumbing them down, or are they choosing FoxNews because they intentionally want to be ignorant of certain issues?

that's not the same kind of chicken and egg problem that ecat has when he's dining at the vacation buffet.

ahhh...memories

worst .....vacation.....ever

Why I enjoy the Goat Pen. Saw "shrimp omelette" on the menu at a restaurant the other day and I cackled.

eCat wrote:so democrats are in favor of extending the payroll tax cut and republicans are against it

I'm living in bizarro land

It's hilarious, isn't it. There was a poll I read somewhere a month or so ago that even the majority of Republicans believe that the Republicans in congress are simply being obstructionist for the sake of obstruction.

It's easy money for Repubs. They won't feel any real political backlash for their actions. So, they stall, threaten filibusters, hold up political appointments and other actions because the fallout would be minimal from their constituency.

Back in the 90s when Gingrich's (sp?) boys were causing problems and obstructing, the news landscape was different. So, they could not control the narrative of their actions. Faux News and Talk Radio allow them to either avoid, obfuscate or cloud the debate, so people wind up not caring, at worst, or believing "all of Congress" is the problem, at best.

On Another Note

You're gonna just straight deny this, Herman Cain? Really? Really? This chick has phone records and no real reason to lie (as there are no financial rewards to come out of this...she ain't Donna Rice, so she won't even get a Playboy check). You should cop to something (sucking her titty back in 2002, or something), at least so it seems like your telling some sort of truth. #Cainwreck