The Goat Pen

"I'm pretty much convinced Avery killed that woman.

I think the police force there is crooked as hell, but I also believe they knew he was as worthless son of a bitch who was capable of doing this sort of thing which is why they had such a hard on all these years going after him."

e, assuming he did kill her then the question becomes whether you believe bad police actions need to be discouraged or whether the ends justify the means. By the end of the series there is also a theme developed that the government's previous bad/illegal behavior made Avery into what he is today, thus "Making a Murderer." I don't want to get too deep into the socio-economic injustice aspect here but hope you agree that your child would likely have better representation if ever unjustly accused (referencing the first conviction).

SnoodGator wrote:"I'm pretty much convinced Avery killed that woman.

I think the police force there is crooked as hell, but I also believe they knew he was as worthless son of a bitch who was capable of doing this sort of thing which is why they had such a hard on all these years going after him."

e, assuming he did kill her then the question becomes whether you believe bad police actions need to be discouraged or whether the ends justify the means. By the end of the series there is also a theme developed that the government's previous bad/illegal behavior made Avery into what he is today, thus "Making a Murderer." I don't want to get too deep into the socio-economic injustice aspect here but hope you agree that your child would likely have better representation if ever unjustly accused (referencing the first conviction).

I could buy some of that. But Avery isn't this happy go lucky kinda dude - he wasn't that before and he certainly wasn't that after he got out.

I would never say their actions were justified. They had an axe to grind with him and to some extent his family that I think had to go beyond him threatening a deputies wife. What that is we may never know unless its been documented but it seems pretty clear to me the police force was intent on making sure Avery was behind bars , so much so they took stupid risks. Now if this was a normal pattern of behavior for them, then it puts it in a different light, however if its just this one guy, well thats alot of effort on their part.

I took a moment to google some perspectives about the documentary and they said there were some things that the documentary doesn't touch on (I'm only on episode 5 ) but they found bondage , handcuffs and leg shackles in both Avery's trailer and Dasseys. They also talked about Avery lying about burning trash before the family even reported the woman missing, and he had a violent past with both his wife and that girlfriend. There were some other things - he fantasized about putting a woman in a dungeon and had drawings of the dungeon and some half hearted attempts on his part to establish an alibi like calling the girl using *67 twice and which they say was trying to hide his identity, then calling her number later that day after the murder normally. Also, they explained the vial of blood and who opened it. Finally, in a previous time when Halbach went to photgraph a car, Avery met her wearing nothing but a towel. She told a co-worker that she didn't want to ever go back there.

There are plenty of things that don't add up - the boyfriend deleting the messages on voicemail, the cop calling in the license plate, the woman walking directly to the car in a 40 acre lot with over a 1000 cars , but as much as I believe those cops are horrible human beings, I can't believe they'd engage in a murder cover up to pin it on a guy by faking evidence.

So Flint didn't fill out the paperwork disclosing his prior work for foreign governments. Fine. You can have him. Be my guest. But what does that have to do with the evidence-free conspiracy theory that Trump colluded with the Russians? Speaking of which...

"This is it!"© Epic Fail, Vol 4:

Re: Florida State Seminoles

Postby bluetick » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:44 am
Update: Minutes after announcing the indictments against Manafort and Gates, Mueller announced a plea agreement with George Papadopoulos, a former Ben Carson aide who served as one of Trump's foreign policy advisers starting in March 2016, on a team overseen by then-Senator Jeff Sessions, now the U.S attorney general. In a stunning revelation, Papadopoulos has admitted covertly seeking to arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin, engaging in regular contact with Russians – including a woman alleged to be a relative of Putin's – who told him that they had "dirt" on Hillary Clinton along with "thousands of emails," and lying about it to federal investigators.

Hey - a little something extra added to the morning's proceedings. The name "Papadopoulos" has an interesting ring to it - kinda like Segretti or Butterfield.

Who was "The Professor" who was supposedly promising Papadopoulos that he could "arrange a meeting with Putin" and "regular contact with a woman relative of Putin's" who "had dirt on Clinton along with 'thousands of emails"? Was this "Professor" a KGB spymaster? A GRU sleuth? A senior operative for the Oligarch? Hardly...

From the Washington Post, not Fox or Breitbart:

LONDON — An academic at a Scottish university confirmed Tuesday he is the “professor” mentioned in the probe over suspected Russian interference in U.S. politics but claimed the allegations are exaggerated.

Joseph Mifsud, who joined the faculty of the University of Stirling earlier this year, was not named in the court documents. He confirmed his identity to the Daily Telegraph on Tuesday, stressing that “I have a clear conscience.”

Mifsud told the Telegraph that he introduced Papadopoulos to the director of a Russian think tank to help him better grasp Russian foreign policy and that he tried to set up meetings with experts on the European Union.

“We are academics,” Mifsud told the paper. “We work closely with everybody.”

In emails with The Washington Post in August, Mifsud said that he had “absolutely no contact” with the Russian government. “I am an academic, I do not even speak Russian,” he wrote.

According to a biography on the London Centre of International Law Practice’s website, which was deleted Sunday, Mifsud “served prominently” in Malta’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and worked as an adviser for Malta’s Ministry of Education.

Nabil Ayad, who hired Mifsud as an honorary director at the London Academy of Diplomacy — where Ayad was founder and director — said Mifsud’s expertise was broadly in the area of diplomacy.

“As assistant to the Maltese foreign minister, he traveled to many countries and met many heads of state,” said Ayad, who is now director of the Academy of Diplomacy and International Governance at Loughborough University in London.

“He’s a professional person. He’s very helpful. As far as I know, he has no favor to any country except Malta,” Ayad added.

Online biographies present Mifsud as an authority in the field of international relations and diplomacy across Europe, the United States, Russia, Africa and the Mediterranean region, but his academic work in these areas appears limited. He has published in peer-reviewed journals on Maltese education policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/pr ... 4c1b0039e5

Yesterday's edition of "This is it!"© just dissolved into another case of utter nonsense. You just can't make this kind of absurdity up. It is worthy of The Onion. Maybe Mad Magazine. This is yet another further additional case of...

wait for it...

wait for it....

[youtube]YIPr23xyoZg[/youtube]

that's a good point though. I never thought about the title of the documentary in that way.

I just assumed the making part was in context of them planting evidence or a failure of our justice system.

Maybe Avery thought that doing 18 years meant he had a freebie? who knows.

e there is a lot of unusual and not fully explained behavior. Way back when I was thru watching it, I read some of the criticism including watching an interview (I think) with the prosecutor. I don't remember everything and also there is a seemingly competent counsel now working on an appeal. There is a lot more for you to see in the series so enjoy that. The take away for me is the nephew and his family were likely railroaded by zealous government actors and when anyone you care about is accused, spare no expense on competent counsel and investigators.

I will say the justice system and in particular judges don't seem to interested in trying to make the defense teams job any easier.

In the first trial, the defense team never knew of Greg Allen, in the second trial, even if they knew of a likely suspect, they weren't allowed to introduce it as a possibility. The whole case had to be focused on making the police and the prosecutors incompetent in their handling of the case.

its been awhile since my wife and I watched a show together and then had a discussion about it after each episode (and during). She's convinced he's innocent, but she also hates cops alot more than I do.

Avery is a fuckhead and probably did it, and probably there is enough evidence to put it beyond reasonable doubt. I'm also sure 18 years in jail didn't exactly "rehabilitate" his character. The police are obviously dicks as well, and I'm sure this isn't isolated. I don't know how you fix it (it's a "who watches the watchmen?" type problem), but there should be a very real fear of severe consequences for evidence tampering, and obstruction of justice, etc by law enforcement. And IMO they should probably even be more severe than when such charges are brought against a civilian just trying to cover up a crime.

"when anyone you care about is accused, spare no expense on competent counsel and investigators."

That's what UNC did. It's a shame that you have to go to such lengths to achieve simple, universally acknowledged justice, and must suffer the consequences, even when innocent, while the forces of the state (or the NCAA) drag your good name thru the mud...

Best part of this thread is everyone ignoring Prof's latest dumbass posting of Wiley Coyote...

I'm just going to wait to see if Mueller actually has anything that points to collusion.

And then, when he does, you'll make some excuses about why it's not really collusion and Clinton was bad.

The nephew's mistreatment seems so egregious that I (briefly) considered retiring and lending a hand to one of the charities that aids those (seemingly) wrongly convicted. I quickly realized that my check is more valuable to the cause than my appellate skills.

Cletus wrote:And then, when he does, you'll make some excuses about why it's not really collusion and Clinton was bad.

it balances out the hard on you have for him.

but you are right. I don't give two shits if he received emails from Russia on Hillary being corrupt.

its absurd that your singular focus is on Trump receiving information from the Russians that exposes Hillary. Not giving away foreign policy secrets or spies names - or some form of equally treasonous espionage but that he (if collusion if proved) that teamed up with the Russians to prove that Hillary could be arguably the most corrupt major politician in our lifetime.

I will expect he's already told Manafort to ride it out a year and when everything blows over he'll pardon him, along with Flynn. I don't think that is right but I will love the people who go completely ape shit at the idea of Trump doing that. They are way too consumed with Trump hate.

oh, and btw, a guy yelling Allah Ahkbar just ran over a bunch of New Yorkers in a truck.

Russians seriously fucked with our election. And France's, and Germany's. That alone would have had right-thinking Amerkins going ape-shit, once upon a time.

Meanwhile, our president is a moron and a sorry POS. Even his friends admit that much.

bluetick wrote:Russians seriously fucked with our election.

Then why Did Hillary pay them so much money for the pee pee dossier? And why did she give them 20% our uranium industry just before they gave her "charitable foundation" millions?, and paid Bill $500K for a speech?

BREAKING:

"This is it!" Epic Fail Vol. 5:

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Postby bluetick » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:57 pm
I don't believe for a minute that Russian meddling cost Hillary the election. The Benghazi smear job that the repubs actually copped to, had more effect by its own self. Throw in her email server and Director Comey's eleventh hour shenanigans and there you have it. Never mind the popular vote - this one's in the books and that won't change.

Why do you lie Tick?

You're trying to hard, prof.

At the time I posted about the election outcome I didn't know 130 million Americans had viewed the products of russian troll farms. Neither did you.

Hell, two weeks ago you were posting about how the media made up the meddling/collusion story out of thin air. Grade A dumbassery, but you weren't privy to certain truths (and were ignoring several others).

But in your's and my defense, what we thought we knew back then is being overturned by new discoveries.

Join me in a toast for new discoveries. (I'm sipping an Old Fashioned)

the fact that 130m Americans viewed Russian propaganda thru social media should tell you how meaningless this idea of Russian collusion is with Trump. The reality is the Russians were manipulating as many people on social media as the liberal media was in trying to bring down Trump.

I'd actually show some concern if the people that talked about Russian influence actually gave a shit about it as a real threat and not just some grand butthurt realization that Trump won the election and they hate him for doing it. The reason I know this is because if Hillary was president and it came out that she hired a British contractor to create a dossier on Trump and used information gleaned from Russian hacking the GOP headquarters, no liberal would say a single word about it. They'd have some glib answer about politics being a dirty game, and they'd talk about how Trump deserved it because he was an awful human being.


I get it, its the liberal equivalent of pushing the birther issue during the Obama presidency. Butthurt conservatives called Obama a Kenyan because they couldn't get past him winning the election either.

After the Russian collusion things goes away , liberals will latch on to something else, IRS taxes, maybe some kickback where Trump leveraged the white house to get money for his real estate holdings. It will be something, they have to.

But at the end of the day, it boils down to butthurt over Trump getting elected.

Its why all the screaming on soap boxes that liberals do is just heard by other liberals and the people that got Trump elected just stick their hands in their pockets and walk on by. There but for the grace of God stand I.

Your cries for justice ring hollow because you don't seek justice for everyone, only those you oppose.

that said, I'd be the same way if Hillary had been elected and democrats owned the house and senate.

matter of fact I'm pretty sure due to Hillary selecting flaming liberals to the SCOTUS, I'd be saying the same shit Cletus says about this country being ruined, except I'd be saying its by people who care more about gender identity of 11 years olds and mandating gas free cars than creating jobs and reducing the size and scope of government in our lives. The way Cletus feels about people in flyover states is pretty much how I feel about California, Oregon, Washington, New York, and Washington D.C... Their vision of America is self serving, short sighted and completely unsustainable.

As it is, I don't hold high hopes for Trump, but he'll slow down and partially dismantle all the horseshit that Obama pushed on us and given that Hillary didn't get elected, that's like at least 6 years before we're completely fucked with the irreversible downward spiral of this country. Maybe he figures out how to get re-elected and we push it out to 10-15 years.

"Join me in a toast for new discoveries. (I'm sipping an Old Fashioned)"

I wish somebody would give you an old fashion asswhipping...

Not that there's much different between an old fashioned asswhipping and a newfangled asswhipping, but it sounds better...