The Goat Pen

From the LI website - admittedly I don't know who they are but they reference credible sources.
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There are many different ways to poll the current controversy over NFL players protesting the National Anthem and flag on the sideline by kneeling down.

One way to poll is whether the players “have a right” to protest. It’s not at all inconsistent to take the position that they have “a right” to protest but also to criticize and object to the protests.

Another way to poll is to make Trump the issue. If you do that, and frame the question as to whether Trump’s comments were appropriate, you are guaranteed at least half the population will poll against Trump.

There also likely are regional differences, with the places where football is more part of the broader culture reacting more negatively. A poll in Louisiana found that a majority of people want the protesting players fired or disciplined:

A new poll has found that more than half of Louisiana voters surveyed think some form of punishment should befall NFL players who protest during the national anthem.

Of the 525 registered voters surveyed in a poll sponsored by the University of New Orleans, 30.2 percent said players should be fired, while an additional 26.6 percent said they should be fined. The remaining 43.2 percent answered that neither of those things should happen.

A more important measure, to me, is the impact on the NFL brand. Perception of a brand is more lasting, and harder to restore, than an opinion on a particular controversy.

As I’ve written, for me that NFL brand no longer holds the emotional attachment it once did, Dear NFL: I’m not “boycotting” you. I just don’t care anymore, about you:

I’m officially over the Cowboys, the Patriots and the NFL. You were once one of the loves of my life. But now we’re breaking up, and it’s you, not me.

I’m not “boycotting” you. I just don’t care anymore.

You tried to make me care, but now I don’t care at all, about you.

When hometown fans are booing the Patriots for “taking a knee,” you know it’s bad.


It appears I might be onto something. Morning Consult does polling, but it also does brand tracking for companies.

Morning Consult has been tracking the NFL brand. In an email this morning, Morning Consult publicly released it’s survey data measuring the impact of the controversy on the NFL brand. There is no other way to slice the data – the NFL brand has dropped precipitously since the “take a knee” controversy.

Here are some of the findings:

NFL’s Brand Favorability Drops To Lowest Point Since Morning Consult Started Tracking: The NFL’s net favorability has dropped from 30% on September 21 to 17% on September 28.

On September 21, 25% of Trump supporters said they had a very favorable view of the NFL and 11% had a very unfavorable view.

As of Sept 28, those numbers have dramatically changed with 33% of Trump supporters say they have a very unfavorable view of the NFL and 16% report having a very favorable view.

Today, 35% of Americans believe the NFL makes a good impact in their community. That’s down 10 points since September 13.

It’s too early to tell if this brand damage will be long-term, or something that will recover quickly.
Part of that might depend on where the protests go from here. To me, at least, the “locking of arms” by the Packers and Bears last night only exacerbated the problem. The crowd reacted by chanting “U.S.A., U.S.A.”

Excellent leadership being shown by Trump down in PR. I wonder if he knows this is an American territory?

hedge wrote:Only when cops killing unarmed citizens reaches epidemic proportions does Prof notice or care. Well, I guess I shouldn't have said "care". But 15 or 16 a year? No problem!

If you want to get into the metrics of how much you "care," and decide who is a "better person," take this simple test:

Number of unarmed black people killed by police per year: 16 (Source: Washington Post)

Number of black people murdered by other black people per year: 2,245 (Source: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... r_2013.xls)

Now, of these two statistics on the unjust and illegal taking of innocent black life in America,

1. Which one is closer to actually being a national epidemic?
2. Which one receives 99.9999999999% of the attention of the media and the Left?
3. Which one is virtually ignored by 99.9999999999% of the attention of the media and the Left?
4. How do you explain this colossal disparity, and how does this allocation of "caring" make the media and the Left "better people"?

Class dismissed.

"I’m officially over the Cowboys, the Patriots and the NFL. You were once one of the loves of my life."

If professional football is the love of your life, you don't have much of a life...

horrible news out of vegas.

Yes. Listening to the audio, the shooter used a fully automatic. Wonder how he got one of those. That explains the enormous death toll.

Are you really wondering how someone could get hold of an automatic weapon in this country?

from the audio I heard this morning it sounded like full auto.

if this guy is the run of the mill standard whacko with a criminal past, my guess is modified SKS with 30 round banana clips.

A real full auto, even on the black market if he could find one (I guess Mexico isn't out of the question) would run him $10K.

There was a museum out west that had 65 fully functional machine guns stolen about a month go

hedge wrote:Are you really wondering how someone could get hold of an automatic weapon in this country?

semi-auto versus full auto

you can't just go to a gun shop or gun show and buy a full auto.

hedge wrote:Are you really wondering how someone could get hold of an automatic weapon in this country?

Excuse me. I should have anticipated that liberals don't know anything about guns, and wouldn't understand the terminology.

An "automatic" rifle means when you squeeze the trigger and hold it, it will continue shooting rapidly until it's empty. That feature makes it very deadly, especially at close range. That is why the military uses them. It is also why they are illegal in all 50 states, with very few exceptions.

A "semiautomatic" rifle will only shoot one bullet per trigger squeeze. That dramatically cuts the rate of fire compared to an automatic. Those are legal most places.

Hope that helps.

"There was a museum out west that had 65 fully functional machine guns stolen about a month go"

"That is why the military uses them."

"It is also why they are illegal in all 50 states, with very few exceptions."

Exceptions. Again I ask, are you seriously wondering how somebody could get an automatic weapon int his country? Hope that helps...

Fox is saying the guy had 8 weapons and a camera setup to record it. I also read from someone posting - who knows if its true, that he owned his own aircraft and had an out of state hunting license in Alaska.

so my theory of him modifying a cheap semi auto is probably off base since this guy clearly had some money. I suspect they were AK-47s and he hired a machinist to make them full auto.

on the way out the door to work I heard Tom Brokaw already banging the drum

"now maybe we can finally have a serious conversation about why we keep having these mass shootings in America"

But you are correct, I don't know a whole lot about guns, out of choice. But I know enough to believe that it can't be terribly difficult for somebody who really does know a lot about guns to modify a semi-automatic so that it's automatic. Or to just get his hands on a real one via the several methods you and eCat listed above. Thankfully, it appears that lunatics like this are few and far between, but in a country awash with heroin and other illegal substances, you're a fool if you don't think that an automatic weapon is the one thing that would be impossible to get your hands on...

The guy's a retired accountant...

to legally get a full auto in Nevada an individual is required to get their Chief Law Enforcement Officer (“CLEO”) to signoff on each Form 1 or Form 4. Some CLEOs take inordinately long to sign off or downright refuse to sign them at all. You must be fingerprinted and photographed as the owner.

sardis wrote:The guy's a retired accountant...

maybe he was inspired

I suspect they were AK-47s and he hired a machinist to make them full auto.

I agree. The rate of fire sounded more like an AK than an AR-15 (the AK is faster), but the modification may affect the rate of fire vs. the factory. If that shooter hired a machinist to do the modification, then that machinist just became a co-conspirator to a mass murder, which is why few legit machinists do that kind of work. Criminal machinists WILL do that kind of work, for big money, especially in Mexico, like eCat said. But most criminals just buy auto's on the black market.

And you're right, hedge; it is about as hard to illegally acquire guns as it is to acquire hard drugs in America, especially if you've got a little money. But I would recommend that gun control advocates not compare guns and drugs since it eventually refutes their own argument. If drug legalization advocates correctly point out that drugs are so ubiquitous that restricting them is futile, then guns are also ubiquitous, and banning them would be equally futile.

every gun show, gun shop I've ever been too - and I've been to quite a few - those guys get religion when it comes to this sort of thing. You come in asking about buying a full auto, they just assume you're either a soon to be on the news nutcase or a BATF plant - either way they'd rather take you out back and beat the shit out of you than have you standing in their store.

Machinist live in that world, and while I'm sure than any guy with a lathe and a file set can shave the sear, anyone that is into guns knows its about the fastest way to prison.

3 things you don't to modify guns. #1 on the list is convert to full auto. The next is build a silencer, and the 3rd is cut down a shotgun.

those things get your doors kicked down.

Now maybe this retired accountant had the ability to modify guns on his own, test them out in the middle of nowhere and then check into Mandalay Bay with this on his mind but that is like off the charts psychological profile. Still, 8 full auto, carried into a Las Vegas hotel, with a camera setup - and a woman in the crowd telling people they are going to die?

something doesn't add up.

I guess we'll find out more as to why a retired accountant was on the police radar.