The Goat Pen

60 Minutes did a segment on heroin in Ohio and Kentucky last night, it went along as you would expect, several mentions of "this poison" being introduced into the community, and at the end they had several parents who had lost children due to overdose. At the very end, they asked one of the moms to respond to the idea that many people have that heroin addicts bring it on themselves and they could just stop if they wanted to and she said something to the effect of "We don't throw diabetics who eat sweets and drink sodas and weigh 300 lbs. in jail, and we don't vilify people who smoke and get lung cancer." While it's true that many people might not feel sorry for those people, she is correct that they are not considered criminals and, apart for a shrug of the shoulders when they die, we don't really vilify them either. And why not? B/c we don't vilify sweets and soda and tobacco. We just accept it as the price of personal freedom and choice.

It's obviously a little more complicated with heroin, but it's undoubtedly true that for many decades, when heroin use was pretty well contained to places like Harlem and jazz clubs, it was easier to vilify the users. Now that cute little Cindy from the Midwest suburbs or football playing Bobby from from the farm are doing it, it's all of a sudden an epidemic. And I'm not saying it's not a problem, it is, but now that Cindy and Bobby are part of the problem, a lot of people who were fine with the "just throw em in jail where they belong" are now being a little more circumspect. Don't blame it on racism, though, that's just going to piss people off...

It's an epidemic because the rate at which people are using, overdosing, and dying is skyrocketing. The blame belongs with the Pharma companies (specifically Purdue) who misrepresented the efficacy and dangers of the opiates they were creating and selling, the doctors who have massively over prescribed these drugs, and the lax regulatory environment that made this all possible. Blaming the users is dumb. They are in the middle of a gigantic health problem and they should be treated the same way someone with cancer would be treated.

legalizing heroin isn't the answer

The thing is, some forms of heroin are legal and regulated while other forms are not. Why not create consistency and figure out a way to make it a lot harder to get in the first place. There is a generation that is fucked but that doesn't mean everyone has to be fucked forever.

My prediction is that heroin is going to go the way of crack and meth. With both of those, there was a spike in use that lasted, unfortunately enough, for several years, then, as anyone with any sense could clearly see, it just wasn't worth it. It's sad and unfortunate that people are dying and will continue to die due to this spike in heroin use (although I think it's obvious that a lot of this is happening due to heroin that's been adulterated with fentanyl - another problem that wouldn't exist if it was legal), but I predict in 5 years these numbers will be far less than half of what we're seeing now. Kids see one of their friends die on this stuff and it makes an impression. Happened to a kid around here, I knew him, went to school with his mom and aunt, the MIF's daughters and all their friends (who were friends with this guy) were horrified. Not that I was too worried about the MIF's daughters (or most of their friends) ever doing heroin in the first place, but after that, I'm pretty sure none of them will ever try it. Sucks that it took somebody dying to make that kind of impression, but unfortunately that's the only way it can.

As far as it being an epidemic, I understand that that is determined solely by the numbers and based on whatever criteria they use to deem something an epidemic, so according to whatever criteria they are using, maybe it is. I still think if it was confined to the usual suspects in the inner city (who are still going to be doing it after Cindy and Bobby from Ohio have quit), you wouldn't be hearing nearly the outcry nor the sudden realization that treatment and not jail is the answer, but maybe I'm just being cynical...

Cletus wrote:Why not create consistency and figure out a way to make it a lot harder to get in the first place..

Mexico

Hillary adds to the list of reasons why she lost

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21174/hil ... benshapiro

eCat wrote:

Cletus wrote:Why not create consistency and figure out a way to make it a lot harder to get in the first place..

Mexico

Hey, after Trump builds that wall, that won't be a problem anymore...

It's also interesting that when the Taliban, those baddest of bad guys (or so we were told) was running Afghanistan, poppy production went to almost zero, but as soon as we went in there, the heroin started flowing again, at record pace. You can't tell me that plenty of US "officials" from several departments aren't getting something out of all of this, as always happens with anything that is unregulated. In short, there are a lot of folks who want to see this stuff kept illegal, but not at all for the same reasons eCat does. In fact, for the exact opposite reason. It's got to tell you something that some people want to keep it illegal b/c they want less people using it, while others want it kept illegal so more people will be able to...

did you watch the interview with Cornwell? I thought it was a great segment.

I caught the end of it...

Conservatives will view this article one way, and the liberals will view it another.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

To call Trump's speech to the UN the unhinged ramblings of a lunatic is unfair to lunatics around the world. I'm in SF right now, the home to the most unhinged lunatics per capita, and they are all cringing right now.

Cletus wrote:To call Trump's speech to the UN the unhinged ramblings of a lunatic is unfair to lunatics around the world. I'm in SF right now, the home to the most unhinged lunatics per capita, and they are all cringing right now.

wow, people in San Francisco are cringing at a Trump speech?

color me shocked.

People die from heroin laced with fentanyl and the like often. The Wayne County--WAYNE FREAKING COUNTY--Sheriff's Department seized five kilos of heroin yesterday. It's coming in like water, and they can't stop it. People failed to learn the lesson of prohibition, and it's leading to more deaths, substance abuse and the preventable ancillary affects associated with prohibition. Legalization needs to happen, and it needs to happen now. Tax it. Set up treatment facilities. Put money into the mental health system. Unclog the courts by ending the treatment of addicts as criminals.

The people living on the streets usually don't take note of this kind of stuff. They are too busy getting a fix and yelling at clouds. But, this speech has snapped them out of their stupor briefly.

DooKSucks wrote:People die from heroin laced with fentanyl and the like often. The Wayne County--WAYNE FREAKING COUNTY--Sheriff's Department seized five kilos of heroin yesterday. It's coming in like water, and they can't stop it. People failed to learn the lesson of prohibition, and it's leading to more deaths, substance abuse and the preventable ancillary affects associated with prohibition. Legalization needs to happen, and it needs to happen now. Tax it. Set up treatment facilities. Put money into the mental health system. Unclog the courts by ending the treatment of addicts as criminals.

Thinning the heard in a good state to do so.

Cletus wrote:The people living on the streets usually don't take note of this kind of stuff. They are too busy getting a fix and yelling at clouds. But, this speech has snapped them out of their stupor briefly.

Ah, 16th and Mission...

To call Trump's speech to the UN the unhinged ramblings of a lunatic is unfair to lunatics around the world. I'm in SF right now, the home to the most unhinged lunatics per capita, and they are all cringing right now.

That leftist lunatics in SF, and everywhere else, are melting down over Trump's speech is proof that is was excellent. Best foreign policy speech by any president since Reagan.

The 8 year era of fecklessness, weakness, magical thinking, and appeasement is OVER.

sardis wrote:Conservatives will view this article one way, and the liberals will view it another.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/ ... index.html

And when Trump tweeted that his campaign was wiretapped? Comrade Clapper said no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrO7ePSOM6w

And you wonder why a lot of us discount anything that comes out of the FBI.