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Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:33 am
by Johnette's Daddy
hedge wrote:Report was false, or so they're saying now...
Partially true - it is NOT a US vessel and no Americans are on-board. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32503660

Issue, however, is that our Navy is there to protect the SLOC (Sea Lines Of Communication) - maybe we're just protecting them for US/Brit/French ships.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:44 am
by Johnette's Daddy
Toemeesleather wrote:From Benghazi......

to Baltimore, the lead from behind legacy continues.
Maybe this will stop the Baltimore PD from breaking the spines of/killing people held in police vehicles.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:48 am
by AlabamAlum
Baltimore is an interesting situation. It doesn't really present as a systemic institutionalized racist situation; rather, just a core of bad cops.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:49 am
by Jungle Rat
His legs weren't working before he got in the van. I'll bet Ray Lewis is in that fracas somewhere stabbing people.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:50 am
by Jungle Rat
AlabamAlum wrote:Baltimore is an interesting situation. It doesn't really present as a systemic institutionalized racist situation; rather, just a core of bad cops.
You saying Jimmy McNulty is dirty?

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:02 pm
by Toemeesleather
Johnette's Daddy wrote:
Toemeesleather wrote:From Benghazi......

to Baltimore, the lead from behind legacy continues.
Maybe this will stop the Baltimore PD from breaking the spines of/killing people held in police vehicles.

Does Baltimore have the same white racist mayor/police chief set-up as Ferguson, Mo.? Are all the police in Baltimore white?

I bet that mayor got on the short list for the next Nobel Peace Prize by showing such courage in protecting free speech vs destruction of private/public property and police lives.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:15 pm
by hedge
One moment, Dan Carlin was posing with his latest catch.

The next, the Carmel Valley, California, resident worried he was going to die after a sea lion attacked, pulling him overboard.

“Flipped my legs up into the water and I went straight down,” Carlin told ABC affiliate station KGTV in San Diego.

Carlin had been enjoying a day on the water with his wife, Trish, when the attack happened. He was smiling for the camera, holding a fish he caught, when the sea lion latched onto his hand and the fish, pulling him below.

Trish Carlin says she started screaming. Eventually Dan Carlin broke free.

“Just before I got to the surface I felt him biting my foot,” he told KGTV.

Trish steered the boat to the dock, and her husband later received medical care. They remain fearful of sea lions.

“We intentionally don’t feed the seals, we don’t feed the birds. We take the carcasses and all the remains and put them in a bucket,” Trish Carlin said.

Said her husband: “I feel very lucky to be alive.”

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:15 pm
by Johnette's Daddy
AlabamAlum wrote:Baltimore is an interesting situation. It doesn't really present as a systemic institutionalized racist situation; rather, just a core of bad cops.
From last month in the Baltimore Sun (before the Freddie Gray killing):

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... tml#page=1

Baltimore leaders agree: City has a race problem

Twice in recent weeks, Police Commissioner Anthony W. Batts has made a startling statement to national audiences: Baltimore is still dealing with 1950s- and 1960s-era racism.

The statement, which comes as the city is seeing population growth for the first time in decades, could have been viewed as a step backward, a self-inflicted wound. Instead, it has triggered a wide-ranging discussion of the issue around Baltimore — and met with relatively little disagreement.

"I agree with him wholeheartedly," said attorney A. Dwight Pettit, an African-American lawyer who has been a fierce critic of the police force and has represented a number of residents in police brutality lawsuits. "Baltimore is still in the Dark Ages in terms of racial and economic disparities."

Even some who maintain sunny views of the Baltimore's future praise Batts for bringing an ugly subject to light — even if they feel he is using hyperbole to do so.

P. David Bramble, a black developer whose firm owns Eastpoint Mall and is working on a 20-acre project with apartments, shopping and a hotel in East Baltimore, has seen potential investors react to the wide divide between prosperous and run-down neighborhoods.

"You go feast to famine in a matter of blocks, and it's very stark for people who are from out of town," said Bramble, managing partner of MCB Real Estate LLC. "I certainly don't think that we're dealing with '50s racism, but I can tell you we're dealing with a massive socioeconomic gap of the haves and have-nots."

Batts' comments come as racial issues have leapt to the forefront in many parts of the nation. Last week, several incidents served as flash points.


In Missouri, two police officers were shot in the town of Ferguson, where the killing of an unarmed black teen has sparked months of protests.

At the University of Oklahoma, a fraternity was shut down after video surfaced of members chanting a racist song.

And in Baltimore County, the community of Bowleys Quarters was under scrutiny after the discovery of racial threats on a community Facebook group.

To be sure, Baltimore no longer has the obvious signs of the Jim Crow era: separate water fountains, segregated lunch counters and balcony seating for blacks in theaters. Many other racial barriers have been breached — the city has had a number of black officials, including congressmen and mayors, and Batts is not the first black police commissioner. Meanwhile, inner-city churches of black and white congregants volunteer in AIDS outreach programs, and cultural groups such as Center Stage are capturing more diverse audiences.

But many city leaders say the city remains as segregated and racially polarized as ever.

Batts told The Baltimore Sun that his comments were designed to shake up the city and start conversations to create solutions — not malign Baltimore's image.

"I'm sorry if people are upset," he said. "These are things that the citizens here have said to me and are echoing from many different parts of the city. ... I think we need to be honest on how to move our city forward."

It's a bold position for a police commissioner who grew up on the West Coast and has been on the job for less than three years — a time in which his department has come under fire and federal scrutiny for police brutality that many say is part of the problem.

Racial segregation has a long history in Baltimore. In 1911, Mayor J. Barry Mahool and the City Council passed the country's first racially restrictive zoning law. It prohibited members of one racial group from buying a house in a block dominated by another race. When the Supreme Court struck that down in 1917, Baltimore had another response: Neighborhoods such as Roland Park required homeowners to sign covenants barring African-Americans.

"We're the genesis of where there was the apartheid practice in the United States," said Lawrence Brown, an African-American community activist and professor of health policy and management at Morgan State University. "Baltimore is a city that has not escaped the legacy of these very restrictive apartheid-type legacies."

Roland Park is still largely white, Brown pointed out, and city neighborhoods remain largely segregated.

Last month, Batts referred to such divisions as he gave a task force convened by President Barack Obama his perception of the city.

"When I go to Baltimore, on the East Coast, I'm dealing with 1950s-level black-and-white racism," he said. "It's taken a step back. Everything's either black or everything's white, and we're dealing with that as a community."

In a C-SPAN interview two weeks later, he said moving from California to Baltimore "was like going back in time."

In his interview with The Sun, Batts said that when he arrived in Baltimore in the fall of 2012, his command staff warned him that if he promoted a white officer he needed to balance the decision by also promoting a black officer. He said, "That hit me and I said, 'Why?' Shouldn't we promote based on merit?"

As he began visiting neighborhoods, he saw stark differences between well-to-do communities populated mainly by whites and dilapidated neighborhoods occupied mainly by blacks. Black mothers complained about the lack of food, let alone opportunity for youths. Businessmen asked what could be done to lower the homicide rate.

Batts believed the issues were connected and could only be addressed by getting Baltimoreans together to talk about citywide inequalities instead of worrying about neighborhood problems.

He said he has taken steps to transform the Police Department, urging more officers to volunteer in city reading programs and requiring patrol officers to spend part of their shifts on foot getting to know residents. He wants to double attendance at a Police Explorer camp that provides meals for children. And he has proposed creating teams of mental health workers and officers to respond to disturbances when a suspect's mental illness could be a factor.

Now he hopes his bold statements about Baltimore's racial climate will trigger a broader discussion about healing the city.

"There's a little bit of a spark here," he said. "Now's the opportunity to make that happen."

Brown is glad someone took the lead in addressing such entrenched issues.

Batts "probably says some things that aren't politically expedient, but they are social truths, they are social realities," Brown said. "And I think he's strong and courageous for saying these things."

But Brown said the police commissioner also needs to find ways to recondition officers who come into the city with an "implicit bias" that blacks are dangerous.

A six-month Baltimore Sun investigation last year found that more than 100 people had won a total of nearly $6 million in court judgments or settlements related to allegations of police brutality and civil rights violations. Some residents were beaten while handcuffed during questionable arrests; others were thrown to the pavement. Most often, the victims were African-Americans.

(There's a lot more in the article . . .)

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:26 pm
by Toemeesleather
Surely Eric Holder can go to Baltimore and straighten this out.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:36 pm
by Johnette's Daddy
Toemeesleather wrote: Does Baltimore have the same white racist mayor/police chief set-up as Ferguson, Mo.? Are all the police in Baltimore white?
When you have institutionalized issues, changing the leadership does not immediately change the institution.

Not even a month ago, a cop in South Carolina shoots an unarmed black man in the back after a traffic stop and reports that the man grabbed his taser and the officer had to shoot.
The watch commander validated the cops report and the shooting is good . . . until the cellphone video surfaces, showing that there is no struggle, the man is shot while fleeing and the cop drops his taser by the body AFTER the man is killed.

Had there been no cellphone video, the accounts of the passenger in the car and the eyewitnesses would have been dismissed out of hand. Cops don't shoot without justification and NEVER plant evidence . . . until they are caught on camera.

Last month there was another guy prepared to accept a 5-year prison term for assaulting a cop (he was facing 20-to-life) . . . until the dash cam video surfaced showing that the police report was a lie and the man was compliant with officers at all times.

And on and on - did these kinds of incidents start happening after the invention of the cellphone/body/dash cam? Or is there validity to the tens of thousands of reported (and unreported) incidents where there was no video evidence?

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:37 pm
by AlabamAlum
Well, the problem with the police and leadership of the city has a less-than-typical presentation, if racism was the impetus of the current situation.

I've heard that Baltimore is 65% black, that the mayor is black, the police commissioner is black, the deputy commissioner is black, 6 of the 10 precinct captains are black, the DA is black, the president of the city council is black, and that blacks have a majority on the council itself. Finally, as of December 2014, 48.2% of the officers are black. (I haven't verified any of this, so do some research if it sounds off. I don't have time to.)

Institutionalized and systemic racism of the police force would have difficulty in that environ, correct?

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:37 pm
by Johnette's Daddy
Toemeesleather wrote:Surely Eric Holder can go to Baltimore and straighten this out.
Not anymore - the GOP set him free on Thursday.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:46 pm
by Toemeesleather
When you have institutionalized issues, changing the leadership does not immediately change the institution


Is that why the mayor refused to act timely? Refused the governor's offer to send the Guard earlier?

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:23 pm
by crashcourse
for violent crime 38% of those arrested are black while black make up only 12% of population and 95% of that is black on black crime

why do black people hate black people?

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:30 pm
by hedge
Same reason we all do!

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:40 pm
by AlabamAlum
crashcourse wrote:for violent crime 38% of those arrested are black while black make up only 12% of population and 95% of that is black on black crime

why do black people hate black people?

You usually rob/hit/murder people in your general geographic area. Why are the percentages higher? Economics, mainly. Also, there is some racism/classism at play in areas. As a middle-aged white guy from a nice neighborhood, I won't get arrested for many of the same things that get a young, poor, black man arrested.

So, when I punch a guy at the bar, the cops give me and the CPA (or whatever) that I hit warnings and make us shake hands. In a poor, black neighborhood, you're getting taken down and processed/arrested.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:58 pm
by crashcourse
" I won't get arrested for many of the same things that get a young, poor, black man arrested. "

I think you get away with a lot more crime in a poor black neighborhood as opposed to an upscale neighborhood so you can look at it both ways

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:26 pm
by AlabamAlum
I disagree with that if you are talking about the residents of the upscale neighborhood being arrested. If you're talking about a poor in my neighborhood, yeah, you're getting popped for walking on the sidewalk.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:28 pm
by AlabamAlum
But I'm pretty sure I could shoot a poor for looking at me in my neighborhood.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:24 pm
by hedge
"I think you get away with a lot more crime in a poor black neighborhood"

You have evidently not tried to buy crack in the hood. Whitey sticks out like a sore thumb (up to Lexington 1-2-5)...