The Goat Pen

we had a reduction in workforce about 2 months ago. One of the people let go was an African American female who had kept her job for about 7 years longer than any white person would have solely because she was a black female. To let her go, we had to have 3 reviews by the legal department and sign off by HR - something that would not have happened for a peer caucasian. I won't get into the details any more than that but personally when we have to retain unqualified people because of their race and because we are afraid of them accusing us of racism, then the last thing I want to hear about is white supremacy.

That's not doing anyone any favors in regards to equality and moving race relations forward.

hedge wrote:"This isn't 1960."

Yes, I suspect that's true in corporate America, at certain levels at least, but you know as well as I do that in, say, rural Kentucky (or rural anywhere for that matter), white folks have a massive advantage. Also, I'm pretty sure that at the upper levels of Goldman Sachs and the like, there are a lot more white partners than non-whites. But yeah, I doubt WalMart cares very much when they're looking to hire a cashier or a greeter...

think about what you just said though - what advantage is there to be gained in rural Kentucky? I'm serious when I say that. Is racism in rural America holding anyone back when the whites aren't even progressing? The lesson learned there is the same lesson I learned. Get out. Get away from those people. Its the same thing I'd tell a black family in Chicago, btw

Yes I'm sure the senior VP's at America Fortune 500 are predominantly white, but as we've said before - how can I relate to the plight of a black man not getting that job when those guys wouldn't hire me either? If you're a Harvard Educated Black Male in your mid 50's with a history of being successful, aggressive and playing the politics necessary to get ahead - and you find there is a ceiling in the handful of elite jobs in corporate America, I'll be happy to listen, but I see about 50:1 ratio of white people that aren't going to ever be considered for those jobs because they didn't have the right background, opportunity or connections as well.

hedge wrote:"This isn't 1960."

Yes, I suspect that's true in corporate America, at certain levels at least, but you know as well as I do that in, say, rural Kentucky (or rural anywhere for that matter), white folks have a massive advantage. Also, I'm pretty sure that at the upper levels of Goldman Sachs and the like, there are a lot more white partners than non-whites. But yeah, I doubt WalMart cares very much when they're looking to hire a cashier or a greeter...

Yeah because an educated minority is going to move to rural Kentucky for........well shit, I have no clue.

And I agree with eCat's assessment as well. Most of the elite corporations it isn't your skin color but who you know.

BigRedMan wrote:

hedge wrote:"This isn't 1960."

Yes, I suspect that's true in corporate America, at certain levels at least, but you know as well as I do that in, say, rural Kentucky (or rural anywhere for that matter), white folks have a massive advantage. Also, I'm pretty sure that at the upper levels of Goldman Sachs and the like, there are a lot more white partners than non-whites. But yeah, I doubt WalMart cares very much when they're looking to hire a cashier or a greeter...

Yeah because an educated minority is going to move to rural Kentucky for........well shit, I have no clue.

And I agree with eCat's assessment as well. Most of the elite corporations it isn't your skin color but who you know.

I'm sure those elites socialize with middle and working class minorities.

DooKSucks wrote:

BigRedMan wrote:

hedge wrote:"This isn't 1960."

Yes, I suspect that's true in corporate America, at certain levels at least, but you know as well as I do that in, say, rural Kentucky (or rural anywhere for that matter), white folks have a massive advantage. Also, I'm pretty sure that at the upper levels of Goldman Sachs and the like, there are a lot more white partners than non-whites. But yeah, I doubt WalMart cares very much when they're looking to hire a cashier or a greeter...

Yeah because an educated minority is going to move to rural Kentucky for........well shit, I have no clue.

And I agree with eCat's assessment as well. Most of the elite corporations it isn't your skin color but who you know.

I'm sure those elites socialize with middle and working class minorities.

about as much as they socialize with middle and working class whites.

It's still easier for those whites to ingratiate themselves though. It isn't easy, but it's easier than it would be for a minority.

That means that minorities have trouble getting invited to the more exclusive square dances and turkey shoots.

Case in point, go in the Piggly wiggly here and the guys in charge are all slouchy, paunchy white guys. Pretty much total losers except they're white. All other employees - butcher, checkout folks, security, produce - are brown. Now maybe those white guys know more about running a grocery store than any brown applicants but if I was doing the hiring, I wouldn't hire someone as slovenly or by outward appearances as dumb as those knuckleheads, even if it is at fucking Piggly Wiggly. It's like 1957 in there

what advantage is there to be gained in rural Kentucky? I'm serious when I say that. Is racism in rural America holding anyone back when the whites aren't even progressing?

You're right. Nowadays everyone, white folk included, is being pushed downward into a Dickensian lower middle class so the few at the top can continue to create wealth. It's not just minorities anymore. This is why a wildly incompetent demagogue like Trump was able to come in and win the White House. Well one of the reasons. Hillary being worse than horrible and a Dem POTUS doing virtually nothing to help the masses for 8 years (2 of which with a completely friendly Congress btw which still grinds my gears) didn't help either.

"think about what you just said though - what advantage is there to be gained in rural Kentucky? I'm serious when I say that. Is racism in rural America holding anyone back when the whites aren't even progressing? The lesson learned there is the same lesson I learned. Get out. Get away from those people. Its the same thing I'd tell a black family in Chicago, btw"

Yeah, but just imagine if a presidential candidate (or any other kind of candidate) said that: "Hey, you live in a shit hole, there's no way you're going to move up the ladder if you stay there. Get out!" That was the whole criticism against Hillary and the dems, that they weren't trying to help the working class where they live. It's also a big reason why Trump got elected, he told them "Oh hell yeah, you can stay in West Virginia or anywhere else in the Rust Belt, I'm going to bring all those jobs back and it's going to be just like the old days!" Ironically, many people liked Trump b/c he wasn't just another run of the mill politician, but he's the one that lied his ass off and just told everybody what they wanted to hear, irregardless of whether he could deliver on his promises or not...

Saint wrote:Case in point, go in the Piggly wiggly here and the guys in charge are all slouchy, paunchy white guys. Pretty much total losers except they're white. All other employees - butcher, checkout folks, security, produce - are brown. Now maybe those white guys know more about running a grocery store than any brown applicants but if I was doing the hiring, I wouldn't hire someone as slovenly or by outward appearances as dumb as those knuckleheads, even if it is at fucking Piggly Wiggly. It's like 1957 in there

You went to Piggly Wiggly? What were you thinking? You should have gone to Whole Foods. You would have been served by a young, bespectacled, vaped, tattoo'd, gaged, skinny-jean'ed, man-bunned, alto, androgynous scarecrow. Much more sustainable.

And for all the shit places like NYC and Chicago and San Francisco get for being havens of liberalism and impossible to live in b/c of the high cost of living, just think why the cost of living is so high: B/c there are tons of jobs there that pay a lot of money. Meanwhile the only opportunities in West Virginia are running moonshine or becoming a heroin addict, all the while blaming liberals for the loss of coal mining jobs...

Tree wrote:

what advantage is there to be gained in rural Kentucky? I'm serious when I say that. Is racism in rural America holding anyone back when the whites aren't even progressing?

You're right. Nowadays everyone, white folk included, is being pushed downward into a Dickensian lower middle class so the few at the top can continue to create wealth. It's not just minorities anymore. This is why a wildly incompetent demagogue like Trump was able to come in and win the White House. Well one of the reasons. Hillary being worse than horrible and a Dem POTUS doing virtually nothing to help the masses for 8 years (2 of which with a completely friendly Congress btw which still grinds my gears) didn't help either.

I completely agree.

hedge wrote:And for all the shit places like NYC and Chicago and San Francisco get for being havens of liberalism and impossible to live in b/c of the high cost of living, just think why the cost of living is so high: B/c there are tons of jobs there that pay a lot of money. Meanwhile the only opportunities in West Virginia are running moonshine or becoming a heroin addict, all the while blaming liberals for the loss of coal mining jobs...

How about all the other havens of liberalism that not only have no jobs, but are barely fit for human habitation, e.g. south and near west Chicago, Detroit, Camden, North Philly, Anacostia DC, East Baltimore, South Central LA, etc? People in West Virginia thank God every day they don't live in those places.

PS, the reason people in WVA blame liberals for the loss of coal mining jobs is because liberals have done everything in their power to destroy coal mining jobs.

Trump would have been more honest had he said

I can't promise coal mining jobs are coming back, but I'm not going to introduce or keep existing legislation that kills them like Obama created and Hillary wants to retain.

That would have been enough to win WV and PA

Hillary could have said "I think we should investigate clean coal further and with the people we have in this country we can figure out a way to keep burning coal, which we have a 100 year supply of and create even more jobs by helping our environment". But that isn't what her base outside of 3 states wanted to hear. They wanted to hear how California is going to lead the way in solar and other forms of renewable energy production.

The solution to our climate change and our environment is technology - not reduction and forced austerity for regions of our country

Professor Tiger wrote:PS, the reason people in WVA blame liberals for the loss of coal mining jobs is because liberals have done everything in their power to destroy coal mining jobs.

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Saint wrote:Case in point, go in the Piggly wiggly here and the guys in charge are all slouchy, paunchy white guys. Pretty much total losers except they're white. All other employees - butcher, checkout folks, security, produce - are brown. Now maybe those white guys know more about running a grocery store than any brown applicants but if I was doing the hiring, I wouldn't hire someone as slovenly or by outward appearances as dumb as those knuckleheads, even if it is at fucking Piggly Wiggly. It's like 1957 in there

I'd agree that the line between the qualifications of the butcher and the assistant manager at piggly wiggly is pretty slim, but then again, its also probably $6K a year difference in pay.
And who would you hire for piggly wiggly management positions? Is there a big pool of highly educated polished labor willing to work 50 hours a week including nights and weekends dealing with rural Americans for $31K a year?

Trump can screw up or generally mishandle alot of stuff and his supporters will look the other way

Immigration is not one of those things.

People are packing their bags to jump off the Trump train if he doesn't figure out a way to get separation from Pelosi and Schumer on an immigration plan that doesn't include the wall

and yes, I know the wall is a waste of money, won't work, blah, blah, blah - but if Democrats are so certain its ineffective, then why not give Trump his $6b or whatever and trade it for the dreamers amnesty?

The reason is the same for both sides - the wall is a symbolic gesture that America is serious about stopping the mass immigration of illegals across our Mexican border.

Yeah, in the same way the DEA is symbolic that we're serious about the war on drugs...

Trump can screw up or generally mishandle alot of stuff and his supporters will look the other way

Immigration is not one of those things.

People are packing their bags to jump off the Trump train if he doesn't figure out a way to get separation from Pelosi and Schumer on an immigration plan that doesn't include the wall

Correct. Personally, I think the DACA's should be left alone. But a lot of Trump supporters would disagree with me. The Wall was the centerpiece of the Trump campaign. Most of them voted for Trump precisely because he promised The Wall to stop illegal immigration. Period. End of story. That was the one, inviolable blood oath that he made with his supporters, that could never, ever be broken. He would either build The Wall, or die in the attempt.

Trump is playing with the future of his presidency here. He already has the Democrats, the media, the deep state, and the Establishment GOP as his mortal enemies. He had better not start screwing over his supporters, like he is on the verge of doing. They can put up with a lot of Trump's craziness. But if he becomes just another Republican politician who promised to do something about illegal immigration during the campaign, but never kept their promises after the election, then his current supporters will be even bigger enemies than the Democrats, the media, and the Establishment GOP. THEY will be calling for his impeachment more ferociously than the ninnies.