The Goat Pen

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think anybody who has heard Kathy Griffin's schtick would ever mistake her for politically correct...

She'll wind as an esteemed political analyst on MSNBC.

Cletus wrote:

eCat wrote:as horrible as the liberals want to make those racist , violent, sub-human Trump supporters to be

well...like you said...thank god for Kathry Griffin. Poster child for the politically correct.

Trump and, by extension, his supporters are causing real and most likely long lasting harm. The contrast between that and an actress holding up a dummy's head is stark. And, anyway, her message is correct. We'd all be better off if he was dead. A massive heart attack is what this country needs.

tell me the harm that is being caused.

real tangible examples

The destruction of key alliances abroad, the destruction of American standing abroad, the elimination of health insurance for millions of people here, and the destruction of the climate (or refusal to help slow down the ongoing destruction) are all things that are causing harm for many if not all of us.

She did nothing wrong

Covfefe

Cletus wrote:The destruction of key alliances abroad, the destruction of American standing abroad, the elimination of health insurance for millions of people here, and the destruction of the climate (or refusal to help slow down the ongoing destruction) are all things that are causing harm for many if not all of us.

you're acting on the belief that all of those things, because they were strengthened under the previous administration are good things.

these are generalities that would need to be addressed individually.

I'll focus on health insurance because that is the one I'm most affected by. Why is it the governments obligation to provide health insurance for millions of Americans? that's an ideology pursuit that you support, for whatever liberal agenda that drives you, where you believe my tax money as a citizen should be diverted to cover health care while ignoring the impact to me as an individual...matter of fact, your comments suggest I should also share the burden of adding the uninsured as well as the underinsured to my personal expense of paying for my own health insurance otherwise your comments would also include that we must find cheaper health insurance alternatives for all Americans. Insuring the millions of Americans that are currently subsidized for various reasons means that cheaper insurance for all Americans is not an option which is why its never talked about.

You've decided your vote should translate to me sharing your compassion for fellow citizens, not by charity and altruistic means but by essentially forced coercion to pay for it, both at a federal level with my tax dollars and out of my own pocket when attempting to provide health insurance for my own family. What gives you the right to force your views of compassion onto me thru the power of the federal government? Your demand that we insure the impoverished and chronically ill has taken money out of my pocket - real money to the tune of thousands of dollars that prevents me from providing a better life for my own family.

As for key alliances, are you talking repealing trade, saying NATO should pay their share, supporting Brexit or is there something else? I'm not a climate change denier, but I've never felt we should sacrifice decades of natural resources because agenda driven scientist believe we should divert more money to renewable energy.

So harm is in the eye of the beholder.

But you're fine with forced government coercion to keep me from using heroin. I guess coercion is in the eye of the beholder, too...

hedge wrote:But you're fine with forced government coercion to keep me from using heroin. I guess coercion is in the eye of the beholder, too...

I'm absolutely fine with that because I want to be able to have a reasonable expectation that my personal life will not be affected by someone with a heroin habit.

I know of no one that uses heroin yet the cost of heroin addiction in my state is affecting me already. It will not be less of an impact were it legalized.

An example - Our local EMS are running out of Narcan because the stuff that is out there now is requiring double digit doses to be applied to keep them from falling back into their overdose. There is a budget deficit that I would assume would benefit society in some other way - perhaps more epi pens in schools that must be diverted to support chronic drug addiction. I'm sure its not a huge amount in the view of medical costs but its still an added burden when you throw in the human factor of supporting it.

eCat wrote: You've decided your vote should translate to me sharing your compassion for fellow citizens, not by charity and altruistic means but by essentially forced coercion to pay for it, both at a federal level with my tax dollars and out of my own pocket when attempting to provide health insurance for my own family. What gives you the right to force your views of compassion onto me thru the power of the federal government? Your demand that we insure the impoverished and chronically ill has taken money out of my pocket - real money to the tune of thousands of dollars that prevents me from providing a better life for my own family.

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay - enacted by Congress in 1986 and signed into law by Ronald Reagan.

"I'm absolutely fine with that because I want to be able to have a reasonable expectation that my personal life will not be affected by someone with a heroin habit."

Maybe poor people feel like they should have a reasonable expectation of health care. Hey, even Trump said "nobody will die in the streets if I'm elected"...

Unless hit in the head by a bicycle lock.

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote: You've decided your vote should translate to me sharing your compassion for fellow citizens, not by charity and altruistic means but by essentially forced coercion to pay for it, both at a federal level with my tax dollars and out of my own pocket when attempting to provide health insurance for my own family. What gives you the right to force your views of compassion onto me thru the power of the federal government? Your demand that we insure the impoverished and chronically ill has taken money out of my pocket - real money to the tune of thousands of dollars that prevents me from providing a better life for my own family.

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay - enacted by Congress in 1986 and signed into law by Ronald Reagan.

completely irrelevant to mandated insurance and in general to this opinion. Because Reagan did it , you assume it will get a pass by me?

hedge wrote:"I'm absolutely fine with that because I want to be able to have a reasonable expectation that my personal life will not be affected by someone with a heroin habit."

Maybe poor people feel like they should have a reasonable expectation of health care. Hey, even Trump said "nobody will die in the streets if I'm elected"...

and I'm not against them having that expectation of health care.

how about this - everyone that thinks they should have health insurance, adopt a family and personally pay for their health insurance costs for the next 10 years or until they are able to cover the costs themselves or maybe donate 1/10th of your salary to a co-op that will then distribute the fund to families on an as need basis.

But don't tell me I have to pony up $4K more a year because you want to feel good about how compassionate you are to your fellow man.

Almost 66m people voted for Hillary. The average health care cost of a family of 4 is $27, 671 per year. Those 66m people just have to pay $1500 each year to cover their costs.

"But don't tell me I have to pony up $4K more a year because you want to feel good about how compassionate you are to your fellow man."

It's not compassion, it's self-preservation. I don't want those people revolting...

Well libs have Katy Perry on their side. "We should all exist as one".

Okay sweetheart, how about you fire your bodyguards and take down them big walls surrounding your mansion......

ecat with quick and decisive counterattack

Cletus and allies retreating?

27000 dollars a year for health care for a family of 4

theres your problem

tell me what the prices are at 2 or 3 different institutions and let me pick

send out a flyer telling me how much your MRI's are and what your reputation fixing my knee and at what price you'll do it.

let there be transparency of costs and services and reputation instead of letting the insurance companies dictate let the consumer pick and choose and for gods sake start investigating your costs and whether you shoul even listen to the "specialist" recommendations.
mf's half the time are selling you something you don't need so they can pad their bank accounts.

I hate the medical system--too often they just rob you

crashcourse wrote:ecat with quick and decisive counterattack

Cletus and allies retreating?

You don't know Cletus - neither one of us are swaying each other