The Goat Pen

eCat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:
Myopic.

so was ignoring them while trying to elect a democrat

You're talking politics. I'm talking about what is needed to mitigate tornadoes ripping through your section of the country at record rates and reduce the other environmental factors that are under duress from the impact of fossil fuel burning.

eCat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:So Sessions met with the Russians during the campaign. It was not offered during his Senate confirmation meetings.

It's obvious the leaks are being done after it becomes painfully clear the Executive branch will not be truthful with items. They leak weeks later...giving ample time for truth to come out. When the Executive branch openly denies, they leak the truth.

be careful what you wish for

At some point Trump will get control of these groups and then he's going to start retaliating.


I heard someone on CNN say that he has decided to review the email server issue on Hillary.

At this point I can only assume its punitive on his part. It won't be the last move he makes in that regard.

I doubt he has any desire to go back on Obama, but if Obama's holdovers are sabotaging Trump every chance they get, he will.

It's not anything about what I wish for, besides justice. I'm talking about protecting US interest. Signs are pointing that there is a problem there.

Also, if you think the Intel community is about "Obama holdovers" then you seriously need to expand where you consume your information. Our intelligence resources arelated simply career patriots. Many of these people have been working since Carter and Reagan were in office. You may want to burn them all as establishment enablers, but they are not Obama's guys. They are just Americans focusing on American interests.

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:
Myopic.

so was ignoring them while trying to elect a democrat

You're talking politics. I'm talking about what is needed to mitigate tornadoes ripping through your section of the country at record rates and reduce the other environmental factors that are under duress from the impact of fossil fuel burning.

I know what you're talking about

you're talking about the assumption that we can't use a hundred year supply of coal because it has to be bad for the environment.

instead of having politicians talk about how they are going to pick the best energy for this country and drive the others out of business, a better approach would have been to find a solution to using our resources we have in a way that is conducive to the environment - and let the market decide what energy sources were economically viable.


sounds like we're both talking politics to me.

Bklyn wrote:
It's not anything about what I wish for, besides justice. I'm talking about protecting US interest. Signs are pointing that there is a problem there.

Also, if you think the Intel community is about "Obama holdovers" then you seriously need to expand where you consume your information. Our intelligence resources arelated simply career patriots. Many of these people have been working since Carter and Reagan were in office. You may want to burn them all as establishment enablers, but they are not Obama's guys. They are just Americans focusing on American interests.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/us/p ... cking.html


somehow I have trouble believing that these moral crusaders for American justice would be leaking intel if Hillary was president.

color me a skeptic.

I can't argue a negative. I can tell you where we are now and if not for the leaks, nobody would know Flynn had the calls with Russia and Sessions had the talks with Russia. Those are real things today, not some hypothetical counterfactual argument that changes nothing about the facts of this story.

Considering your Snowden position, I'm surprised you are now all for keeping Americans in the dark about shady dealings. Did you meet a girl, or something?

Bklyn wrote:I can't argue a negative. I can tell you where we are now and if not for the leaks, nobody would know Flynn had the calls with Russia and Sessions had the talks with Russia. Those are real things today, not some hypothetical counterfactual argument that changes nothing about the facts of this story.

Considering your Snowden position, I'm surprised you are now all for keeping Americans in the dark about shady dealings. Did you meet a girl, or something?

I chose my words carefully - I'm not giving Sessions the benefit of the doubt. I think he lied. Did he talk sanctions on Russia, I don't know. Should he answer for it? Absolutely. No where did I say I supported Sessions lying or selectively nuancing his answer to congress. He should excuse himself from any investigation into a Russian connection to the President.

My problem is the hypocrisy of the leakers. This isn't about bringing down a corrupt administration, its about bringing down Trump because they don't like him or what he's about to implement as a president - where were they when Holder refused to release documents about Fast and Furious that could potentially incriminate him or other DOJ people? Where is the outrage when Holder went after phone records of AP reporters under the guise of national security?

What I do know is Sessions and Trump will be on the warpath for these leakers and I have no sympathy for them should they be caught. Snowden didn't play politics, they are. And some of it is driven not for even political ideology but just simple self preservation of their job security.

"a better approach would have been to find a solution to using our resources we have in a way that is conducive to the environment - and let the market decide what energy sources were economically viable."

In this case, the market is rigged, and a rigged market is no market at all...

"somehow I have trouble believing that these moral crusaders for American justice would be leaking intel if Hillary was president."

That's just absurd. All I heard when Comie said he might re-open the investigation on Hilary right before the election was how the intel community hated her. But that's absurd too. There is no unified intel community, just a bunch of different men and women who I'm pretty sure fall all across the political spectrum, just like the rest of the country. But hey, our government is the one who put them there in the first place, our government is the one who constantly fan the flames of fear and justify every measure as needful against terrorism. It's just a highly specialized branch of the military industrial complex, call it the spook division. We created this monster, no one should be surprised when it acts like one...

Dammit...my reply to you eCat was erased.

I don't feel like typing it again. We differ, that's the gist. I don't think it's Obama related and most of these intel specialist can make plenty of money outside government. Many do what they do out of a higher purpose. I don't think it's about self-preservation.

hedge wrote:"somehow I have trouble believing that these moral crusaders for American justice would be leaking intel if Hillary was president."

That's just absurd. All I heard when Comie said he might re-open the investigation on Hilary right before the election was how the intel community hated her. But that's absurd too. There is no unified intel community, just a bunch of different men and women who I'm pretty sure fall all across the political spectrum, just like the rest of the country. But hey, our government is the one who put them there in the first place, our government is the one who constantly fan the flames of fear and justify every measure as needful against terrorism. It's just a highly specialized branch of the military industrial complex, call it the spook division. We created this monster, no one should be surprised when it acts like one...

I still believe it. They are acting out of either outright hatred or self preservation. While Hillary certainly would have gone after Comey, and I think the intel community did have a dislike for him (and Lynch) dragging his feet on her investigation, I don't think they would be willing to jeopardize their job or prosecution to bring down her administration should she been elected.

Trumps been in office like 7 weeks. It would be one thing if this was going on for 2 years and built up a list of nefarious shit that is being hidden from the public. That's understandable.

This is just petty nonsense.

Trump is going to clean house at the CIA and probably the FBI and they know it.

I'd love to read or hear Trump say one more time "nobody cares about my tax returns except for a couple of reporters." That'd be a real hoot.

Meanwhile, 140 Congressional lawmakers including 3 Republicans have sent a letter to Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch, requesting that he make Trump's tax returns available to a 'select committee' in light of potential national security concerns. Hatch denied an earlier request of a few dozen representatives citing there was not enough evidence of misconduct. Sen. Lindsey Graham is pushing for legislation requiring all future presidential candidates to make public their tax returns beginning in 2020

attaboy Lindsey

"Dammit...my reply to you eCat was erased. "

How did that happen?

"This is just petty nonsense."

As far as you know. There's no telling what they know, though...

bluetick wrote:I'd love to read or hear Trump say one more time "nobody cares about my tax returns except for a couple of reporters." That'd be a real hoot.

Meanwhile, 140 Congressional lawmakers including 3 Republicans have sent a letter to Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch, requesting that he make Trump's tax returns available to a 'select committee' in light of potential national security concerns. Hatch denied an earlier request of a few dozen representatives citing there was not enough evidence of misconduct. Sen. Lindsey Graham is pushing for legislation requiring all future presidential candidates to make public their tax returns beginning in 2020

attaboy Lindsey

"including 3 Republicans"

heh

I have no doubt that Trump will be "Snowden'ed" his entire term.

I was never a fan of Snowden and I'm not a fan of this. I still think Trump is a clown-shoes president who will leave the country much worse off.

bluetick wrote:I'd love to read or hear Trump say one more time "nobody cares about my tax returns except for a couple of reporters." That'd be a real hoot.

Meanwhile, 140 Congressional lawmakers including 3 Republicans

Were these 137 Congressional lawmakers wearing white pant suits Tuesday Night?

Let me give you a hint Tick, they don't care about his tax returns either. No one cares about a billionaire's tax returns. The only thing they care about, is their pride. And their pride got stung back in November and they are grasping at whatever straws they can find to somehow, someway, invalidate and disqualify the will of the people of the United States in some vain effort to get HRC to be POTUS. As our POTUS said about Russia and the dems trying to link Russia's hacking of the DNC website to Trump....

POTUS wrote:It is all a ruse....

I would love to see Trump's returns. I think that it would show his debt and if he has any secondary gain motives.

Many believe he's not a billionaire anymore. That some heavy losses, bad deals, and debt have greatly eroded his wealth.

AlabamAlum wrote:I would love to see Trump's returns. I think that it would show his debt and if he has any secondary gain motives.

Many believe he's not a billionaire anymore. That some heavy losses, bad deals, and debt have greatly eroded his wealth.

Trumps mistake was just engaging them at any level beyond STFU

"Will you release your tax returns?"

"No"

"Why not?"

"Because I don't want to, now STFU"

honestly I think the only reason people want to see tax returns is this guy made $200K one year and then after winning the election he now has an income of $1.7M. They want that glaring he's on the take moment.

I get the "maybe he has Russian income" but if you have 500 business connections worldwide, he's going to have every kind of connection. That's like Sessions. Did you talk to the Russians? yes, and 20 other diplomats. now STFU.

They're going to fuck Trump over any chance they get, his ego won't let him ,but he needs to just start telling people to STFU.

He isn't going to win them over and his strength is taking his message directly to the American people and bypassing the media altogether.

eCat wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:I would love to see Trump's returns. I think that it would show his debt and if he has any secondary gain motives.

Many believe he's not a billionaire anymore. That some heavy losses, bad deals, and debt have greatly eroded his wealth.

Trumps mistake was just engaging them at any level beyond STFU

"Will you release your tax returns?"

"No"

"Why not?"

"Because I don't want to, now STFU"

honestly I think the only reason people want to see tax returns is this guy made $200K one year and then after winning the election he now has an income of $1.7M. They want that glaring he's on the take moment.

I get the "maybe he has Russian income" but if you have 500 business connections worldwide, he's going to have every kind of connection. That's like Sessions. Did you talk to the Russians? yes, and 20 other diplomats. now STFU.

They're going to fuck Trump over any chance they get, his ego won't let him ,but he needs to just start telling people to STFU.

He isn't going to win them over and his strength is taking his message directly to the American people and bypassing the media altogether.

pretty much

eCat, you've become a full-bore, kool-aid-drinking partisan. Guess it happens to everyone eventually.

AlabamAlum wrote:I would love to see Trump's returns. I think that it would show his debt and if he has any secondary gain motives.

Many believe he's not a billionaire anymore. That some heavy losses, bad deals, and debt have greatly eroded his wealth.

An individual's tax return does not show a person's debt. It does not show what the value of your assets are. The income on a tax return does not even give a hint as to the wealth of an individual.

80% of my work is with real estate developers. A developer can start a project and pretty much write off about 20-30% of the cost in the first year and depreciate the rest over 15-39 years. Even though the property goes up in value, the cost keeps depreciating until it reaches -0-. I've seen properties that have zero cost left on the tax return that are $50M in value. The only time a developer recognizes income is if he sells the property and keeps the cash. He can even sell the property, use the proceeds to invest in another property, and have -0- income from the transaction.

Anyways, the tax return says nothing about wealth, and for a real estate developer, it is always represents lower than what he actually makes because the tax code favors them. If I were him, I wouldn't release them either because its probably 1000 pages and he would waste time explaining everything in it. Easy for lifelong bureaucrats to show their two page return that has just a W-2 and a few contributions.