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Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:55 pm
by Johnette's Daddy
crashcourse wrote:JD I understand your skeptism/cynicism and after all the facts are in the grandjury does its job and let the chips fall where they may
Agreed.
the biggest issue I have is the overreaction of the press and community to the point people were at risk for being hurt and the national guard is called out--and our leaders and pulic figure did nothing but inflame the situation--from jesse/al to the mayor/police chief to the govenor to the attourney general to even the president of the united state.


Disagree - the reaction was natural. It wouldn't happen in your community, but what you had was a young man shot and killed in front of at least a half dozen eyewitnesses and they left his body to rot in the street for five hours . . . that in itself is a desecration that is universally considered inhuman.
instead the cop was villified inflamming even more the community for a kid that by most accounts may not have left the officer with any choice but to open fire.


Most accounts say the kid was surrendered when the kill shot was delivered, which is black letter murder.
overreaction may not be the right word in the death of an 18 yo--but the kid if accounts are right certainly was stupid with his actions
Yes, the kid was stupid. As a parent of a 27 year old black male, I've spent much of his life teaching him how to deal with the police - "don't mouth off," "comply with all instructions," "don't run away," etc. I've made a decent enough buck where my kids have always lived in "great" neighborhoods with "great" schools and the majority of their friends growing up were white (still are, for my son). Their white friends - especially as teens - mouthed off to cops and did stupid stuff all the time (some of them tipped a police car after a Lakers championship win), but they were never in danger of losing their lives for it.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:03 pm
by puterbac
Professor Tiger wrote:If the cop did have a facial fracture, then there will be a plenty of evidence to prove it - medical records, cat scan results, medical staff witnesses, etc. If there is such evidence, then this becomes a Tawana Brawley case. Without such evidence, it continues to look like a Rodney King case.
Yep. The shot fired in the car is also important.

I have to laugh at the "witness" saying the 170 lb cop somehow grabbed Brown by the neck and pulled him toward the car. Really? That's like say I could reach an OL neck and have the strength to pull him towards while in my car? Riiiight.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:04 pm
by puterbac
Johnette's Daddy wrote:
Professor Tiger wrote:If the cop did have a facial fracture, then there will be a plenty of evidence to prove it - medical records, cat scan results, medical staff witnesses, etc. If there is such evidence, then this becomes a Tawana Brawley case. Without such evidence, it continues to look like a Rodney King case.
One caveat: the cat scans, etc., cannot be from 5-6 days after the event.
Jungle Rat wrote:Is Johnette's Daddy a regular from Cnn/SI or Worldcrossing? Looks familiar but I don't remember him being crazy.
I was on both and I clearly remember you as being what you are.
Well today. When Opramacare kicks in it might take a week or more.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:52 pm
by Jungle Rat
I think IB & Johnette would make a cute gay couple.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:35 pm
by puterbac
Johnette's Daddy wrote:
crashcourse wrote:
Johnette's Daddy wrote:

Is that his mom? His attorney? His bookie? There is a female friend of his who has been calling in to all of the right wing talk shows and, so far, this "source close to the officer" is the ONLY ONE claiming the orbital bone fracture.

As for the footage in the store, it's not material since (as the Ferguson PD claims) the cop didn't know about the theft and it was 10 minutes before the shooting. The victim smashing the cop's face, however, is central to the credibility of the cop and the witnesses. It's the ONE piece that ends this thing immediately . . . and no one is producing any evidence of it, other than apocryphal and anecdotal third hand references.
The footage from the store is absolutely material to the state of mind of Brown. Guarantee you Brown thought the cop was looking for him and was going to try and arrest him for robbery. Why? Because he just strong armed robbed a store 10 minute prior.

As far as witnesses in the media so far: What friggin credibility do they have? Shot in the back...umm no not really.

The violence and looting is from a small group of criminals who are simply taking advantage of the situation to steal.

Mark it down the conclusion to this has already been written: Investigations at all levels are going to back up the cops version of events. He may still be indicted at some level, but he will win. Riots will occur. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Bottom line don't rob a store, don't punch a cop in the face and try and get his gun, don't ignore cops orders after all this happened and bum rush him = Nobody shot.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:59 pm
by Johnette's Daddy
CNN refutes bogus Fox News claim: Darren Wilson didn’t have a fractured eye socket
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/201 ... cnn.com%2F

As suspected. Fox News claimed the x-ray showing the fracture had been released . . . an x-ray that never existed.

Next iteration will be that the cop "almost" had an orbital fracture, then when that is shot down it'll be had a black eye, then Brown tried to bite his eyes out,

At trial, the truth will be he sustained the bruising when he grabbed the kid's neck and accidentally got himself head-butted.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:07 pm
by 10ac
Jungle Rat wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote:There's video of the crazy guy in St. Louis getting shot and killed by the police. I count at least 8 shots fired, several of them while he's already lying on the ground. He's shot at just about 1:35 into the video

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/20/6051377/vi ... eme-Powell
That's fucked up.
That is fucked up. I think I'll go burn a Krogers.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:06 pm
by Johnette's Daddy
A Ferguson Story on ‘Conflicting Accounts’ Seems to Say ‘Trust Us’

http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... -trust-us/

Want an object lesson in the problems of dubious equivalency and anonymous sources?

Look no further than Wednesday’s Times, where a highly fraught question — precisely how, in Ferguson, Mo., a black teenager, Michael Brown, was shot by a white police officer, Darren Wilson — is the subject of the lead story.

The story’s first paragraph says that “witnesses have given investigators sharply conflicting accounts of the killing.”

But where is the backup for the “he said she said” that readers are so tired of? What’s the sourcing?

It comes in the fifth paragraph — the basis for much of the story and one that’s so hard to grasp that I had to read it twice to understand what it was saying.

It goes like this:

“The accounts of what witnesses have told local and federal law enforcement authorities come from some of those witnesses themselves, law enforcement authorities and others in Ferguson.”

Once you’ve absorbed that — the basis of the “sharply conflicting accounts” — you might ask: “And from whom, exactly, has The Times learned of these accounts?” Here’s the answer, which immediately followed in the article:

“Many spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.”

The implicit answer is “trust us.”

The story goes on to quote, by name, two eyewitnesses who say that Mr. Brown had his hands up as he was fired on. As for those who posit that Mr. Brown was advancing on the officer who was afraid the teenager was going to attack him, the primary source on this seems to be what Officer Wilson told his colleagues on the police force. The Times follows this with an unattributed statement: “Some witnesses have backed up that account.” But we never learn any more than that.

A number of readers have written to me about all of this, some prompted by a long, highly critical piece by the media commentator Lawrence O’Donnell on MSNBC that aired on Wednesday.

Arthur Silen of Davis, Calif., was one of those who wrote to me. He detailed a list of complaints, referring to what he called clear lapses of professionalism and integrity, and told me that he “expected much, much better” of The Times. And Maggie Rheinstein of McLean, Va. described herself as “distraught and upset” by the reporting standards in the story, which she described as “stenography for the police department.”

James Dao, a deputy national editor, disagreed with my assessment and what I told him of the readers’ concerns. He said that, while it would be ideal in every story to name all the sources, that was not possible here.

“In stories of this type, it’s rare and difficult to get on-the-record what investigators are learning,” he told me by phone on Thursday. But Times reporters and editors strongly believe that their sources are credible, and that it was important to include their perspective, even if presented anonymously.

He also told me that while there is disagreement on some of what happened, there is also considerable agreement — that a scuffle occurred, and that Mr. Brown ran away. “It’s at that point that it gets muddy,” Mr. Dao said. “The story says ‘this is messy.’” The reporting “gives some insight into how law enforcement is viewing this case — this is what they say they’ve got.” That, he said, is valuable to the reader.

As for the vagueness of the sourcing — readers don’t even know which law enforcement agency, much less the source’s name — it reflects “how we worked it out with various sources,” he said; no further specificity was possible. The story is both “fair and balanced,” he said, and the balance is legitimate. “I don’t think there’s a false balance here at all.”

My take is this: I’ll grant that the Ferguson story is a difficult one to report, with dangerous conditions for reporters and photographers, relentless deadlines and shifting story lines. The Times has generally covered it accurately and well, from all that I can see.

But this article doesn’t measure up, for the reasons detailed above. The Times is asking readers to trust its sourcing, without nearly enough specificity or detail; and it sets up an apparently equal dichotomy between named eyewitnesses on one hand and ghosts on the other.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:11 am
by sardis
You have a Democratic mayor, a Democratic governor, a Democratic Attorney General, and Democratic President...I don't know what JD is worried about.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:37 am
by Jungle Rat
10ac wrote:
Jungle Rat wrote:
Dr. Strangelove wrote:There's video of the crazy guy in St. Louis getting shot and killed by the police. I count at least 8 shots fired, several of them while he's already lying on the ground. He's shot at just about 1:35 into the video

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/20/6051377/vi ... eme-Powell
That's fucked up.
That is fucked up. I think I'll go burn a Krogers.
Don't you dare. I own a bunch of stock.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:35 am
by BigRedMan
bluetick wrote:
BigRedMan wrote:
There are no politics, money to be raised, news headlines, or stores to be looted when black people kill black people.

Sorry, truth is truth.
Same circumstances and same eyewitness accounts, a regular joe gets cuffed and booked. As long as we're telling truths..
Maybe but still a fact that black people kill more black people everyday than white cops in a year. Again, no politics or names in the news for it to be important.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:58 am
by Johnette's Daddy
BigRedMan wrote:
bluetick wrote:
BigRedMan wrote:
There are no politics, money to be raised, news headlines, or stores to be looted when black people kill black people.

Sorry, truth is truth.
Same circumstances and same eyewitness accounts, a regular joe gets cuffed and booked. As long as we're telling truths..
Maybe but still a fact that black people kill more black people everyday than white cops in a year. Again, no politics or names in the news for it to be important.
This is an argument I don't get. White people kill white people. Hispanic people kill Hispanic people. Asian people kill Asian people. There were 13,646 homicide victims in the last reporting year. The majority of them were white, as was the overwhelming majority of their killers. Yet you never hear about the epidemic of white-on-white crime.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:24 am
by Johnette's Daddy
sardis wrote:You have a Democratic mayor, a Democratic governor, a Democratic Attorney General, and Democratic President...I don't know what JD is worried about.
I fear for those good Americans who have fallen under the sway of boobs like Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:46 am
by aTm
We seem to be doing OK anyway. Thanks.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:16 am
by bluetick
This state senator named Nasheed is everywhere in the media about the Ferguson story, and she's terrible. Ill-prepared, and it's like she doesn't listen to the interviewer and can only regurgitate the same bombast over and over. Even a sympathetic MSNBCer couldn't get her to make any sense.

Megyn Kelly (mmMM-Megyn) has no such sympathies, of course.

[youtube]uuOkfmiFhs4[/youtube]

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:37 am
by Toemeesleather
[/quote]

Maybe but still a fact that black people kill more black people everyday than white cops in a year. Again, no politics or names in the news for it to be important.

This is an argument I don't get. White people kill white people. Hispanic people kill Hispanic people. Asian people kill Asian people. There were 13,646 homicide victims in the last reporting year. The majority of them were white, as was the overwhelming majority of their killers. Yet you never hear about the epidemic of white-on-white crime.[/quote]


Them's some mighty big blinders you got on there, brah.....serious question, do you think OJ killed Nicole and Ron?

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:47 am
by Toemeesleather
Tick, you and Brock need to have a come to Jesus meeting w/this Yellen lady....she needs to get on the bus!!lll




In a speech at a central banking conference here, Yellen laid out in detail why she feels the unemployment rate alone is inadequate to evaluate the strength of the U.S. job market.

The jobless rate has fallen faster than expected, but Yellen said the economic disruption of the last five years has left millions of workers sidelined, discouraged, or stuck in part time jobs - facts that are not captured in the unemployment rate alone.

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:27 pm
by hedge
I do wonder how this town (or district or whatever you call it) that is has a majority of black people keeps electing mostly white people. According to that clip, they even elected this prosecutor over a black woman....

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:34 pm
by crashcourse
lots of witnesses say he had his hands up
lots of witnesses say he charged the cop
wonder if any seen the struggle with the officer.
I'm sure somebody took a picture of this cops face in the ER
but he didnt look beat up standing in the street after the shooting

Re: Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:12 pm
by innocentbystander
Johnette's Daddy wrote:This is an argument I don't get. White people kill white people. Hispanic people kill Hispanic people. Asian people kill Asian people. There were 13,646 homicide victims in the last reporting year. The majority of them were white, as was the overwhelming majority of their killers. Yet you never hear about the epidemic of white-on-white crime.
Because white people don't care when a white drug dealer kills another white drug dealer. To us, that is not an epidemic. It isn't even news worthy. It is two criminals who don't care whose lives they destroy trying to destroy each other.

We care when truly innocent people are victimized (such as Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.) NOW we care.