The Goat Pen

Ya got one of two things that happened in STL:

1. A cop executed a guy in broad dalylight in front numerous witnesses while the guy (according to one witness) was on his knees with his hands up in the air saying don't shoot or (according to other witness) running away from cop and shot in the back.

Or...

2. A guy who had just committed a strong armed robbery thought the cop was after him due to the robbery and shoved the cop back into his car, hitting him while going for the cops gun, said gun is fired in car, guy tries to flee, cop yells to freeze, guy turns back around and runs at cop to attack him and cop fires until he guy drops.

He wasn't shot in the back, he wasn't on his knees, cell phone video has people talking in background afterward about how guy stops and turns around and runs at cop which is backed up the current autopsy and how shot entered the top of the head (aks head down while running at him).

If the cop murdered the guy, by all means rip him limb from limb. But if he was in a struggle over his gun and later the guy turned back and charged him (6'4" 300ish pounds) wth is he supposed to do? I'm curious where the first shot supposedly fired in the car went. If it was a wild shot that hit the dash, window/shield, seat, etc that would back up the struggle in the car story.

So far the "eyewitness" accounts aren't holding water to the physical evidence.

Watched the President's press conference while waiting on my car to pass inspection. I agree with everything he said on the Iraq and Ferguson situations. He did look awful fatigued or maybe he was a little ill.

You try being on vacation for 2 weeks and having to deal with this stuff.

puterbac wrote:Ya got one of two things that happened in STL:

1. A cop executed a guy in broad dalylight in front numerous witnesses while the guy (according to one witness) was on his knees with his hands up in the air saying don't shoot or (according to other witness) running away from cop and shot in the back.

Or...

2. A guy who had just committed a strong armed robbery thought the cop was after him due to the robbery and shoved the cop back into his car, hitting him while going for the cops gun, said gun is fired in car, guy tries to flee, cop yells to freeze, guy turns back around and runs at cop to attack him and cop fires until he guy drops.

He wasn't shot in the back, he wasn't on his knees, cell phone video has people talking in background afterward about how guy stops and turns around and runs at cop which is backed up the current autopsy and how shot entered the top of the head (aks head down while running at him).

If the cop murdered the guy, by all means rip him limb from limb. But if he was in a struggle over his gun and later the guy turned back and charged him (6'4" 300ish pounds) wth is he supposed to do? I'm curious where the first shot supposedly fired in the car went. If it was a wild shot that hit the dash, window/shield, seat, etc that would back up the struggle in the car story.

So far the "eyewitness" accounts aren't holding water to the physical evidence.

If it is #2, then the cop will not be found guilty (might not even be charged.) Then Ferguson 2014 will look like LA in 1992.

puterbac wrote:
So far the "eyewitness" accounts aren't holding water to the physical evidence.

Says the guy who thinks Ted Stevens was pure as the driven snow.

Strange. Talent did a drive-by last week, and now puter checks in..

and it's a cold day in August..

Nixon Calls Out National Guard in the headlines..

sardis wrote:Watched the President's press conference while waiting on my car to pass inspection. I agree with everything he said on the Iraq and Ferguson situations. He did look awful fatigued or maybe he was a little ill.

This thread is freaking me OUT, man

puterbac wrote:Ya got one of two things that happened in STL:

1. A cop executed a guy in broad dalylight in front numerous witnesses while the guy (according to one witness) was on his knees with his hands up in the air saying don't shoot or (according to other witness) running away from cop and shot in the back.

Or...

2. A guy who had just committed a strong armed robbery thought the cop was after him due to the robbery and shoved the cop back into his car, hitting him while going for the cops gun, said gun is fired in car, guy tries to flee, cop yells to freeze, guy turns back around and runs at cop to attack him and cop fires until he guy drops.

He wasn't shot in the back, he wasn't on his knees, cell phone video has people talking in background afterward about how guy stops and turns around and runs at cop which is backed up the current autopsy and how shot entered the top of the head (aks head down while running at him).

If the cop murdered the guy, by all means rip him limb from limb. But if he was in a struggle over his gun and later the guy turned back and charged him (6'4" 300ish pounds) wth is he supposed to do? I'm curious where the first shot supposedly fired in the car went. If it was a wild shot that hit the dash, window/shield, seat, etc that would back up the struggle in the car story.

So far the "eyewitness" accounts aren't holding water to the physical evidence.

You have it messed up. The eyewitnesses say the guy had his hands up, facing the cop, begging him not to shoot. The arm wounds were consistent with his hands being up and the shot in the top of the head likely occurred as Brown was falling from his other wounds.

Of course, the Ferguson PD could quell this all by releasing the GSR tests on the clothes and the car. If there was a struggle in the car - and certainly if the gun was discharged in the car - that would almost immediately exonerate the cop.

As a cynic who has dealt with small towns before, my guess is that Ferguson's primary concern is the inevitable Wrongful Death lawsuit, especially if they are self-insured.

bluetick wrote:

puterbac wrote:
So far the "eyewitness" accounts aren't holding water to the physical evidence.

Says the guy who thinks Ted Stevens was pure as the driven snow.

Never said that. I don't shit about him, but when HOLDER asks for verdict to be set aside and indictment to be removed? Then judge blisters the prosecutors and assigns a special counsel to investigate? Really?

Putter, hello.

I think he tried shooting him in the arm the first few shots trying to get him to stop but he kept charging. 4th shot again, trying to stop him and finally the 2 to the head because he had no other choice. Should he have shot him in the nuts instead? Yes. But we weren't there. Just my theory.

As good as any.

Johnette's Daddy wrote:
You have it messed up. The eyewitnesses say the guy had his hands up, facing the cop, begging him not to shoot. The arm wounds were consistent with his hands being up and the shot in the top of the head likely occurred as Brown was falling from his other wounds.

Of course, the Ferguson PD could quell this all by releasing the GSR tests on the clothes and the car. If there was a struggle in the car - and certainly if the gun was discharged in the car - that would almost immediately exonerate the cop.

As a cynic who has dealt with small towns before, my guess is that Ferguson's primary concern is the inevitable Wrongful Death lawsuit, especially if they are self-insured.

Well I've seen 3-4 "eye witnesses" saying very different things. I watched the celeb Doc on Greta who did the 2nd autopsy and he said the arm wounds could have been up or down and same for the head. He was equivocal as all get out. I agree on the shot in the car. Hopefully it is clear either way.

What up AA?

Jungle Rat wrote:I think he tried shooting him in the arm the first few shots trying to get him to stop but he kept charging. 4th shot again, trying to stop him and finally the 2 to the head because he had no other choice. Should he have shot him in the nuts instead? Yes. But we weren't there. Just my theory.

I don't know. As bad as people shoot handguns under duress he probably was just missing center mass to the left and hit the arm and he got the last few shots off and the guy was closer they were more center mass/head.

If the guy was running towards him and the last shot was the head shot that killed him it seems like he would have slid forward (scrapes etc). If he was standing still or backing up, you wouldn't see that.

He fell face first. That doesn't happen standing still or moving backwards. He also might have been a great shot. We don't know that though.

He said that for the arms. The head shot clearly was not. One went through the head and ended up in the clavicle. The only way that could happen is with the head tilted down at about a 90 degree angle. The same for the shot on the top of the head of this 6--4 teen.

At this point, the police have very little credibility. If he were stopped because of suspicion of a strong arm robbery (10 minutes before), then there would have been less of an uproar. But the only thing that the police initially said was that he was stopped for walking in the middle of the road. This robbery thing was not mentioned at all. And they didn't interview the kid with the teen for 5 days, even though he was readily available. Then they release it at the same time as the officers name, lying that they had to release stills of the robbery because the press had requested it (they hadn't, they didn't know about it). They requested under FOIA, the name of the officer, the police report and the autopsy report. All they got by the way was the name of the officer. Then the police captain later in the day admitted that the officer who shot the teen, didn't know about the robbery and that he was pulled over for walking in the street. That the alleged strong-arm robbery was unrelated to the shooting. Then why did you release them at the same time as though they are connected? Finally later that evening, the police captain tweeted that the shooting officer saw the $2.00 cigar box and that's why he pulled him over. Mind you, while the police report on the robbery was released, they still haven't released the police report on the shooting.

Regardless of what the police report says now, how can it be trusted?

no doubt ferguson PD fucked this up --that convience store tape should have been released at trial --that by itself damn near acquits the cop

I'll be interested to see if autopsy shpow the kid was on anything. bullcharging a cop whom you just assaulted not the smartest thing in the world.

cops are trained that a man with a knife can cover 20 feet plus in the time it ttakes you to unholster your weapon and get off the first shot.

after telling that manboy to freeze I can imagine when the kid spun around and charged head down that cop indeed was in fear and squeezed off 6 shots in less then 5 seconds

after seeing the convience store tape what was that kid more likely to do bullrush or get on his knees with his hands up?

why does anybody think a decorated cop with no discplinary history would execute someone by firing 6 shots at a guy with his hands up.

why does anybody think a decorated cop with no discplinary history would execute someone by firing 6 shots at a guy with his hands up.

The same reason folks don't give a flip about a black man/woman/baby getting shot/killed in Chicago by another black man.

....additional deaths no one cares about.



Workers at a state-of-the-art solar plant in the Mojave Desert have a name for birds that fly through the plant’s concentrated sun rays — “streamers,” for the smoke plume that comes from birds that ignite in midair.

Federal wildlife investigators who visited the BrightSource Energy plant last year and watched as birds burned and fell, reporting an average of one “streamer” every two minutes, are urging California officials to halt the operator’s application to build a still-bigger version.

The investigators want the halt until the full extent of the deaths can be assessed. Estimates per year now range from a low of about a thousand by BrightSource to 28,000 by an expert for the Center for Biological Diversity environmental group.

The deaths are “alarming. It’s hard to say whether that’s the location or the technology,” said Garry George, renewable-energy director for the California chapter of the Audubon Society. “There needs to be some caution.”

The bird kills mark the latest instance in which the quest for clean energy sometimes has inadvertent environmental harm. Solar farms have been criticized for their impacts on desert tortoises, and wind farms have killed birds, including numerous raptors.

crashcourse wrote:no doubt ferguson PD fucked this up --that convience store tape should have been released at trial --that by itself damn near acquits the cop

So, the kid (allegedly) stealing a box of cigars validates executing him?

I'll be interested to see if autopsy shpow the kid was on anything. bullcharging a cop whom you just assaulted not the smartest thing in the world.

Trust me - if there was anything in the toxicology report, that would've been the FIRST thing the PD released. It's likely they were waiting/hoping that the test would come back positive and when it didn't, they released the tape instead.

cops are trained that a man with a knife can cover 20 feet plus in the time it ttakes you to unholster your weapon and get off the first shot.

According to the cops, the kid rushed the cop and pushed him into the car and they fought over the gun. IF that is the case, there should be blood and guts, gun shot residue, scratches and tears in the car and on the bodies of the cop and the decedent. Ferguson PD should be trotting out Brown's clothes, the report on the police cruiser, the officer's uni, etc. If it happened the way the cop claims, there should be a ton of supporting evidence. They've had 2 weeks to process the evidence on a high priority case - that moves them to the front of the line. The fact that all they can come up with is that Brown is a suspected shoplifter speaks volumes.

after telling that manboy to freeze I can imagine when the kid spun around and charged head down that cop indeed was in fear and squeezed off 6 shots in less then 5 seconds

Did you serve in the military? I did and we were taught that the basic human instinct when you see a gun is to run AWAY from - not towards - the gun. Soldiers have to be trained to rush an ambush and it's one of the hardest lessons to learn. If he was an Iraq veteran or a 30 year old mujahedeen fighter, OK, I can see him rushing at a drawn pistol. But an 18 year old high school grad? Nah.

after seeing the convience store tape what was that kid more likely to do bullrush or get on his knees with his hands up?

Not that the two are connected, but the convenience store worker was about 125# and unarmed.

why does anybody think a decorated cop with no discplinary history would execute someone by firing 6 shots at a guy with his hands up.

1) Because (sadly) it happens all the time.

2) Amazingly, Ferguson PD only keeps records of disciplinary actions that result in suspension, loss of pay or termination. If the guy got a letter of reprimand or something, it's up to him to put it in his personnel file. You cannot make up stuff like this.