Florida State Seminoles

[sardis]

https://youtu.be/SQAMemu6fEg

[Bklyn]

The Baghdad guy would have been ashamed of the charade of a press conference the White House held today.

The first full day in office and going all in on the authoritarian playbook of undermining an opposition institution in order to maintain your hold on what "facts" are. Spicer's presser and Trump's speech to the CIA today were both the things that will be covered in Poli Sci classes in 20 years. It was surreal. Friday's inauguration was the largest attended in American history. Fuck yo couch, Truth!

[Bklyn]

The thing that strikes me about that photo is that there are exactly zero doable women in attendance.

Lower center-left, woman's profile...this is the best chance we got in the frame.

[Saint]

The thing that strikes me about that photo is that there are exactly zero doable women in attendance.

Lower center-left, woman's profile...this is the best chance we got in the frame.

Pretty much and she could be one of those chicks whose face changes disturbingly at different angles.

[Bklyn]

if you have listened to my rants on here over the past decade I have 3 common themes

we are not an agricultural country where people can just show up , claim some land and make a living while escaping whatever was bad back home. We live in an era where Americans are downsizing their families for multiple reason but economics is certainly one of them. I've been ranting about this idea of just letting latinos into this country while ignoring our immigration laws for years because of just that reason. Secondly that's not a melting pot - its unfair to European, Africans and Asians to let the mass of one culture take over a sizeable block of this country, bringing in essentially the same skillsets. I've got 15 fucking mexican restaurants in my small town but I've got to drive 15 miles for good manicotti.

the second one is Israel. Props to Obama for being Anti-Israel. I figured as much as African Americans dislike Jews and Korean Grocery Store owners but a middle class white man can't just go around ranting about Israel so I've tempered my rhetoric as my income has risen. Trump is going to give Israel whatever they want but that isn't surprising.

finally the last one is free trade versus fair trade. Fair trade is global economics 101 - I sell you $1,000 worth of shit I am good at making and you sell me $1,000 worth of shit you're good at making.

but globalism /free trade has been eating us alive for decades. Kia/Hyundai and Airbus for example are/were subsidized by their countries to compete with us.

I believe is it possible for Trump to leverage entry into our economy in order to get better trade deals for our country without resorting to tariffs or trade wars but even if that isn't possible, I damn sure don't want a globalist like Hillary making us this European Union equivalent.

and I expect that I am not alone in my views with people who live in the flyovers states

now I'm hearing that Trump wants to cut the DOE and a few other organizations drastically to the tune of 1 trillion dollars to cover the cost of his infrastructure spending.

again - plays well with the flyover states

as for his racism which has been mostly blown up based on his comments regarding latinos and muslims,

FDR rounded up japanese *Americans* - not fresh out of the sand immigrants - so you know..whatever

so based on my rants for the last 10 years at least, I've been waiting for someone to talk like Trump.

Thanks. I know the rants well, but I just didn't want to be presumptuous. So, from your perspective, POTUS Trump 45 (that was written specifically to help me find it at a future date in a search) needs to deliver on:

1. Illegal immigration (which is the lowest in 10 years...estimated at ~11.3M in the country today) needs to be lower in 4 years
2. Israel - You want something, but are not expecting anything (as far as aid, I take it). So no need to put this on your report card for him
3. I'm not sure what your metric is here. It can't be that he isn't Hillary...a theoretical President doing theoretical things that lead to theoretical results. Will it matter if we lose jobs (the consecutive streak of job creation ends), median income drops (current median income is $56K...up from $50K in 2008) or if our trade deficit expands? I'm just trying to come up with something that can measure what you expect.
4. So, if he successfully cuts regulation and shrinks government more than Obama (who reduced the size of government during his tenure to some significant magnitude that I don't feel like looking up right now), but it leads to another banking scandal, or environmental scandal or education results drop as drastically as the state of Michigan's did under the helm of (nominated) Secretary of Education Devos, will you be fine with that? Or will he be judged just based on cutting "government oversight?"

Is that a good listing of what would make you feel okay with your vote for Trump?

Japanese internment was one of the worst things done in the history of this country and is an embarassment.

[eCat]

[quote="Bklyn"][quote="eCat"]


1. Illegal immigration (which is the lowest in 10 years...estimated at ~11.3M in the country today) needs to be lower in 4 years

Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson on Thursday said agents are seeing a renewed surge of people attempting to sneak into the U.S. through the southwestern border over the past few months, with more than 46,000 caught in October alone. But that will not do much to solve the surge of children and families, who make up a large part of the increased flow, and whom the Obama administration has struggled to contain. Under the current interpretation of federal law, the children are quickly processed and sent to live with sponsors in the U.S. — oftentimes parents who are in the country without permission — while they go through a years long deportation process.

As for families, during the initial 2014 surge Mr. Johnson boosted bed space and committed to hold families until they could be deported — making it more likely that they would be kicked out. But after an outcry by immigrant rights advocates, the department relented and now tries to process and release families as quickly as possible.

All told, the 46,195 illegal immigrants nabbed at the border in October was the highest number since June 2014, at the peak of the surge of unaccompanied minors.

It’s the highest tally since the surge of illegal immigrant children in the summer of 2014. The number of illegal immigrant minors dipped in 2015 but spiked again in fiscal year 2016. The number of people traveling together as families hit an all-time high in past 12 months.

so as you can see, I don't believe that illegal immigration is at its lowest - at best I think its cyclical due to the economy and global political issues. For that matter I don't believe that illegal immigration is 11m +/-. The real number if more likely double that number. But none the less, it doesn't change the issue that we have a porous border and for the most part both political parties that believe in flooding the market with illegals - for their own gain knowingly against the will of the people and the arguably the best interest of the American worker. We should never be in the position that on the whim of the current president we can increase or decrease the flow of immigrants into this country - and all of them should be legal.

2. Israel - You want something, but are not expecting anything (as far as aid, I take it). So no need to put this on your report card for him

so Obama gets credit for pissing off Israel when no other Democrat or Republican other than Rand Paul will? No, sorry. Hillary would have done as much as if not more than Trump will for Israel. Zero net gain (or loss) on this one. That isn't theorectical, she was all in on Israel.


3. I'm not sure what your metric is here. It can't be that he isn't Hillary...a theoretical President doing theoretical things that lead to theoretical results. Will it matter if we lose jobs (the consecutive streak of job creation ends), median income drops (current median income is $56K...up from $50K in 2008) or if our trade deficit expands? I'm just trying to come up with something that can measure what you expect.

I'm not sure what your metric is either. You're comparing job increases in the margin of 100K that include minimum wage service sector jobs (and that is what should be happening in economy) as a marker against millions of manufacturing jobs lost over decades. This isn't an Obama issue, or even a democratic one. Republicans are free trade moreso than Democrats, but Hillary is a globalist to the extreme. Hell, she sold access to the state department for foreign leaders of state in return for donations to her own Foundation - and even she ran away from TPP (While Ted Cruz voted for it) when she hit the campaign trail.

You can't deny that that stock market is up to historic highs or that people are working. But your numbers don't paint the whole picture. in January 2000 the median annual household income was $57,128. That's 16 years of loss or stagnation for the middle class. When you adjust for inflation, wages for the middle class - and for those below that line - have grown in trivial amounts. I think its a pretty easy sell to the American public that wage stagnation is due to globalism as the global economy try to reach wage equilibrium. Then you throw in Obamacare where they haven't lowered the cost of health care, they've just subsidized the poor so they can pay the same inflated prices and increased costs due to mandates as everyone else - resulting in fundamental changes in what the middle class pay out of pocket to get the same health care above and beyond the adjustment for inflation - and talking about any increase to median income seems pretty callous to me in light of those numbers.

As a side note about health care, the Brookings institute conducted a study and concluded "Under more comprehensive income definitions—ones that include the value of health insurance—most workers’ money wage gains and losses are exactly offset by corresponding losses or gains in the value of their employer health protection. " Matter of fact, the only segment of society that saw an income increase due to "affordable" health care was the bottom 20% and that was only if the subsidized healthcare was counted as income.


Voting for Donald Trump wasn't about trying to increase service sector jobs by 25K a month. Its about a fundamental change in the government mindset in regards to trade, immigration, regulations and growth potential. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't - but to prop up a median income increase that is still below a point set 16 years earlier as some kind of victory or competent governance for the people and the outgoing administration is in no small part the kind of Washington insincerity that was voted out.

4. So, if he successfully cuts regulation and shrinks government more than Obama (who reduced the size of government during his tenure to some significant magnitude that I don't feel like looking up right now), but it leads to another banking scandal, or environmental scandal or education results drop as drastically as the state of Michigan's did under the helm of (nominated) Secretary of Education Devos, will you be fine with that? Or will he be judged just based on cutting "government oversight?"

President Obama will set a record for the size of the basic federal workforce, leaving office with more than 1.4 million people collecting government salaries in the civilian agencies in 2017, according to the budget he delivered to Congress.

Admittedly Obama leaves the presidency relatively scandal free. and for that matter, a great role model for fathers and husbands - but again - our choice was Hillary or Trump in the end. You really want to have a discussion about a scandal free government in either candidate? Is a scandal in the private sector developed out of lax government over site more objectionable than a scandal within our government due to a corrupt president? I think you can make a pretty strong argument that with decreased government regulation you will invite scandal or irregularities or out and out fraud, but the payoff is that less regulation creates more opportunity.

While this is a state issue, the idea is that you'll see fewer stories like this

Code: Select all

For 25 years, China Fun was renowned for its peerless soup dumplings and piquant General Tso’s chicken.

What left a bad taste in the mouths of its owners and loyal patrons was the restaurant’s sudden Jan. 3 closing, blamed by management on suffocating government demands.

“The climate for small businesses like ours in New York have become such that it’s difficult to justify taking risks and running — nevermind starting — a legitimate mom-and-pop business,” read a letter posted by the owners in the restaurant’s front door.

“The state and municipal governments, with their punishing rules and regulations, seems to believe that we should be their cash machine to pay for all that ails us in society.”

and I should vote for a New York Businessman who is sick of that kind of regulation or a New York Senator who thinks we need more of it?

Is that a good listing of what would make you feel okay with your vote for Trump?

As I've said, I love the message of Trump. Would I have wanted Trump to be the messenger? Absolutely not, but if my choices are Ted Cruz or a laundry list of cookie cutter Rhinos on the GOP side and then a corrupt politician with no moral or ethical compass on the democratic side, at this point I'll vote for Trump every day of the week and in some Chicago districts, twice on Sunday. I'm not thrilled to be voting for a twice divorced, married to a glamour model crass billionaire - but I am thrilled to hear him talk about America first, illegal immigration, trade deficits, bringing back or keeping manufacturing jobs and taking a axe to the size and scope of our federal government. Bonus for calling out the media as liars.

Now I recognize there are millions of people out their pinning their unrealistic hopes on Donald Trump - and to be fair he invited it in spades - Its clear he isn't going to deliver for them - and in 3 years they will be frustrated and disillusioned that there isn't a new Ford truck plant being built in their backyard, that we didn't publicly execute Isis members and nuke North Korea, that transvestites aren't wearing striped shirts with a giant "T" on the front, whatever is they think they need - but what he will have done is set a tone for government and I hope pave the way for future politicians to be able to talk freely and openly about our issues


Japanese internment was one of the worst things done in the history of this country and is an embarrassment.

as it was one of the most popular presidents, a democrat no less, that made the decision. A different time, a different era ...maybe, but still no less a challenge to the safety and security of this country. We're talking about bringing people over here that we can't properly vet and just dumping them randomly in America as our government sees fit . A far cry from moving American citizens into an internment camp.

I think what bothers people more than anything about Trump - the Hollywood, the "elite", the liberal SJWs - whatever form that takes today, etc. is that under Obama they had this vision that we would enact laws and punish business and individual Americans based on their value system - for saying something as basic as "you know I'm not comfortable with a transvestite male using the women's bathroom or my religious views don't allow me to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding" - and it just got pushed too far, too fast and without concern for the viewpoints of a huge number of people ( under the guise of tolerance no less) to the point that people pushed back. You and I differ wildly on our views regarding the value of BLM but it got lumped into the Obama agenda - all of which was welcomed by Hillary as an extension of her future presidency.

and so for those that felt Obama brought America forward, the election of Donald Trump is a harsh reminder that - no - America isn't about the viewpoints of enlightenment that is defined by Hollywood and liberal power brokers - you pushed your agenda at the expense of middle America and they pushed back - electing a man that is going to do his damndest to remove every policy, law and mantra of the previous administration. As much as they want to protest and decry, this is America and in large part I feel like they brought it on themselves

[hedge]

"Majority of 230 protesters arrested on Inauguration Day will face 10 years in prison and $25k fine as US attorney says they will be charged with felony rioting"

Yep, and if you copy a DVD you can face up to 5 years in prison and $75,000 fine, I wonder how often anybody has been charged with the max? Although I do think if you should face some penalty if you cause property damage or bodily harm to others (which I assume is what differentiates rioting from merely protesting or assembling), but 10 years? No way...

[Bklyn]

There's a lot there, eCat. This will be fun. Gimme a couple days to make time to comment.

Either way, I'm still not sure what results need to happen, or not happen, to objectively measure your expectation of Trump''s presidency. But I will try to separate the wheat from the chaff, so we can have a common view of the expectations.

[hedge]

"under Obama they had this vision that we would enact laws and punish business and individual Americans based on their value system - for saying something as basic as "you know I'm not comfortable with a transvestite male using the women's bathroom or my religious views don't allow me to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding" "

You consider civil rights protections for fringe groups to be punishment against people who don't want them to have those rights? Of course, 50 years ago, you could've included coloreds wanting to get served in restaurants as one of those annoying value system thingy's that got "pushed" too fast for some folks' liking...

[hedge]

I wonder how Aiiissshhhh-LEEEEEEHHHH JUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHDDD'SSSS rant from yesterday's Women's March is going to be received by the vast majority of UK fans?

[eCat]

"under Obama they had this vision that we would enact laws and punish business and individual Americans based on their value system - for saying something as basic as "you know I'm not comfortable with a transvestite male using the women's bathroom or my religious views don't allow me to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding" "

You consider civil rights protections for fringe groups to be punishment against people who don't want them to have those rights? Of course, 50 years ago, you could've included coloreds wanting to get served in restaurants as one of those annoying value system thingy's that got "pushed" too fast for some folks' liking...

in the first example, the bathroom, its a public safety measure - its not infringing on the civil rights of a person born a male to require they use facilities for a male. They are not being denied equal access to facilities - , the second is freedom of religion - if a person believes their religion would not allow them to support gay marriage in any form or fashion - including baking a cake, then who is the government of a country founded on escape from religious persecution well before any mandated commerce laws came into being to tell them they should?

By forcing a person who does not believe in gay marriage to engage in commerce (or any other activity) in support of gay marriage, the state is by virtue of legislation telling them their religious viewpoint is wrong.

[AlabamAlum]

The bathroom thing is not a real safety issue. The statistics just don't support that. And people with the "wrong" genitals have been using bathrooms for a long time. and really, if we are concerned about the kids, I would be just as concerned about a flannel wearing bull-dyke pedo female in with my daughter or a leather-wearing pedo male in with my son. In Europe as you know, the unisex bathroom is a thing (the stall doors are usually longer), and it's not a thing.

The cake thing is interesting. People used to use their religion as a reason to keep blacks out of stores, restaurants, and hotels, too. We as a society said if you want to do business in a public, here are the rules this society set.

[eCat]

The bathroom thing is not a real safety issue. The statistics just don't support that. And people with the "wrong" genitals have been using bathrooms for a long time. and really, if we are concerned about the kids, I would be just as concerned about a flannel wearing bull-dyke pedo female in with my daughter or a leather-wearing pedo male in with my son. In Europe as you know, the unisex bathroom is a thing (the stall doors are usually longer), and it's not a thing.

The cake thing is interesting. People used to use their religion as a reason to keep blacks out of stores, restaurants, and hotels, too. We as a society said if you want to do business in a public, here are the rules this society set.

I'm not really concerned what stats say. I as a standard male can't take my daughter into a female bathroom but a male transvestite who identifies as a female can.

why one is not accepted and the other is supposed to be is just moronic. The real twist is tomorrow I can claim to be a transvestite who identifies as a female and then I can.

[AlabamAlum]

Stats, evidence, and proof can be troublesome.

I'm older than most here. I have a friend who is a trans who uses the "wrong" bathroom and has for decades. It was never an issue, and he was never stopped for a genital check or whatever.

And I have seen moms carry sons in the ladies room, I have been to conferences that were 80% women where the women used the men's room. It wasn't an issue, either. And like I said, the unisex restrooms of Europe aren't a thing.

[eCat]

I'm older than most here. I have a friend who is a trans who uses the "wrong" bathroom and has for decades. It was never an issue, and he was never stopped for a genital check or whatever.
.

then why is it an issue now?

[Bklyn]

Religious conservative idiots

[AlabamAlum]

Religious conservative idiots

Exactly.

[Cletus]

I'm not really concerned what stats say.

You're getting nicely assimilated into the Trump way.

[Saint]

You do realize that bathroom laws and the like are just smoke screens built around alternative facts to keep us distracted while they loot the treasury, right?

[AlabamAlum]

Heh. That would be very Sun Tzuzian, stu. Honestly, I don't think they're that smart.

But they will loot. No doubt, but they would be just as happy to do it brazenly and in the open.