The Goat Pen

A chilling message from the cartels: Billboards with hanging mannequins warning cops to choose 'silver over lead' appear in Texas
Two billboards along highways in El Paso, Texas were vandalized and had mannequins hanging off of them
One reads 'silver or lead' in Spanish which is taken to mean that police and business owners can either take drug cartels' bribes or die
Worries spreading that cartels that have ruled Mexican border towns with violence may be headed north.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Texas.html

[img2]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/ ... 34x499.jpg[/img2]

crashcourse wrote:
The biggest problem is the vets themselves

There are close to 10 million vets in the VA

almost 5 million get disability payments--Disability has turned into a joke. Over 50% of vets get disability for stuff that was going to happen to them whether they were in the military or not-

I must admit there is some truth to this. There are a couple of people I know who did 30 in the military, retired at senior levels, are working good gigs now AND getting 30%-70% disability. I know a 3rd to whom the above applies PLUS the government is paying for his PHD (G.I. Bill). The flipside, of course, is that he served in both Gulf Wars, in theater, and had he gotten killed 30+ years ago when he first enlisted, his family would've only gotten $25 grand. So in his mind, Uncle Sam gambled and lost. Had he died or gotten out after 4 years, Uncle Sam would've won.

I also agree there is some truth to Crash's statement. My brother-in-law is a doctor. He did part of his residency at a VA hospital. He said there were a lot of old codgers that lived there and spent their days playing poker with their buddies. They were basically using it as a retirement home and a way to get away from their nagging wives. When they saw a labcoat and stethoscope walking down the hall, they'd throw down their cards and yell "INCOMING!" and dive under the table', pretending to hide from imaginary mortar shells. As soon as the doctor left, they'd go right back to their poker game.

That being said, the instances of abuse in the VA is no reason to excuse or downplay 40+ deaths. That's like when conservatives want to slash food stamps because there are some who defraud it. Liberals (rightly) don't accept the "blame the needy" argument with food stamps and therefore shouldn't use the "blame the vet" argument with the VA.

" There are a couple of people I know who did 30 in the military, retired at senior levels, are working good gigs now AND getting 30%-70% disability. I know a 3rd to whom the above applies PLUS the government is paying for his PHD (G.I. Bill)."

I'm not one to fawn on the military, but if you serve 30 years AND do tours in two theaters of combat, you should damn well never have to pay a medical bill the rest of your life. Hell, throw in their spouse as well. And any other "benefit" such as paying for further education. God bless a man of that age even wanting to get a PhD. Uncle Sam should pay for it. He earned it...

The dude claiming a football injury while he was at a military prep high school, or some desk jockey who "served" 3 years in the acquisition department trying to get lifetime benefits and perks is a different story...

Guns don't kill people, part MMXIV vol. 132:

[youtube]da974B1gSUw[/youtube]

A psychotic young man goes on a rampage and kills 6 because girls won't pay him attention is horrible. Of the 6 he killed, half were stabbed to death with a knife. When he started stabbing those kids to death, pity there wasn't a law-abiding citizen with a gun there to shoot him.


The shooter had been seen by several therapists and a social worker - who had called police to relay concerns some time ago.


Oh yeah, totally blame the NRA for this. Totally....

AlabamAlum wrote:A psychotic young man goes on a rampage and kills 6 because girls won't pay him attention is horrible. Of the 6 he killed, half were stabbed to death with a knife. When he started stabbing those kids to death, pity there wasn't a law-abiding citizen with a gun there to shoot him.


The shooter had been seen by several therapists and a social worker - who had called police to relay concerns some time ago.


Oh yeah, totally blame the NRA for this. Totally....

What you left out:

A psychotic young man legally obtains a gun.

Funny how that keeps happening.

The NRA's opposition to any measure that places a modicum of oversight on gun trafficking is shameful. In many states, it's harder to buy Sudafed for your sinuses than it is to buy a gun. Then you gun nuts blame every other segment of society when someone who has no business with a gun gets one legally and shoots up a school . . . or a post office . . . or a mall . . . or a house of worship . . . or an Army base . . . or a TV station . . . or a UPS store . . . or a Laundromat . . . or a child care center . . .

Just saw that kid's video he made before the shooting spree. Let's just say I am glad that DSL doesn't believe in owning guns.

The common denominator of nearly all the recent mass killings is the role of mental illness. I'm extremely pro-2A, but in theory, I'm open to restricting gun possession from those who are very mentally ill and likely homicidal. To me, that is similar to the laws preventing convicted felons from owning guns, which even the NRA heartily supports.

The problem is, how would that work? I'm opposed to a person losing their 2A rights just because they're going through a divorce and are on prozac for the understandable depression. 99.9% of them aren't a threat to anybody.

Plus, the psychologists I know don't want to have the authority to strip patients of their firearms. That opens them up to lawsuits, and would make their clients less likely to be honest in therapy. Restrictions on a person's right to own firearms should be akin to them being declared incompetent, by an impartial judge following presentation of clear evidence (like homicidal video postings).

Johnette's Daddy wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:A psychotic young man goes on a rampage and kills 6 because girls won't pay him attention is horrible. Of the 6 he killed, half were stabbed to death with a knife. When he started stabbing those kids to death, pity there wasn't a law-abiding citizen with a gun there to shoot him.


The shooter had been seen by several therapists and a social worker - who had called police to relay concerns some time ago.


Oh yeah, totally blame the NRA for this. Totally....

What you left out:

A psychotic young man legally obtains a gun.

Funny how that keeps happening.

The NRA's opposition to any measure that places a modicum of oversight on gun trafficking is shameful. In many states, it's harder to buy Sudafed for your sinuses than it is to buy a gun. Then you gun nuts blame every other segment of society when someone who has no business with a gun gets one legally and shoots up a school . . . or a post office . . . or a mall . . . or a house of worship . . . or an Army base . . . or a TV station . . . or a UPS store . . . or a Laundromat . . . or a child care center . . .

I haven't heard that he bought this gun legally, but I find it no funnier than a psychotic man legally obtaining a car, a bucket of acid, or a butcher knife (like the one the young man killed half his victims with). This happened in California, which has a good array of gun laws. But sure. Blame the NRA.

The anti-gun idiots are quick to blame everyone, too. Except, of course, the person who....you know...actually pulled the trigger. Now THAT'S shameful.

Guns are the cause of murder like forks are the cause of obesity.

AlabamAlum wrote:

Johnette's Daddy wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:A psychotic young man goes on a rampage and kills 6 because girls won't pay him attention is horrible. Of the 6 he killed, half were stabbed to death with a knife. When he started stabbing those kids to death, pity there wasn't a law-abiding citizen with a gun there to shoot him.


The shooter had been seen by several therapists and a social worker - who had called police to relay concerns some time ago.


Oh yeah, totally blame the NRA for this. Totally....

What you left out:

A psychotic young man legally obtains a gun.

Funny how that keeps happening.

The NRA's opposition to any measure that places a modicum of oversight on gun trafficking is shameful. In many states, it's harder to buy Sudafed for your sinuses than it is to buy a gun. Then you gun nuts blame every other segment of society when someone who has no business with a gun gets one legally and shoots up a school . . . or a post office . . . or a mall . . . or a house of worship . . . or an Army base . . . or a TV station . . . or a UPS store . . . or a Laundromat . . . or a child care center . . .

I haven't heard that he bought this gun legally, but I find it no funnier than a psychotic man legally obtaining a car, a bucket of acid, or a butcher knife (like the one the young man killed half his victims with). This happened in California, which has a good array of gun laws. But sure. Blame the NRA.

The anti-gun idiots are quick to blame everyone, too. Except, of course, the person who....you know...actually pulled the trigger. Now THAT'S shameful.

Sheriff was quick to announce that the gun was obtained legally. As for the rest:

There are 5X as many gun homicides as there are stabbing homicides. Psychos aside, my wife lost one of her friends last week - you may have heard about it http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/20/michael-j ... adid=hero2

It's a simple story - guy and his wife argue over money. She says the wrong thing and he snaps. Because he has a gun in the house, he grabs it and shoots her. Didn't mean to - things got out of hand and now she's dead. If there was no gun in the house, maybe he beats her, throws her through a window, hits her with a golf club or stabs her with a pair of kitchen shears. All of those scenarios are eminently more survivable than getting shot in the face at close range.

AlabamAlum wrote:A psychotic young man goes on a rampage and kills 6 because girls won't pay him attention is horrible. Of the 6 he killed, half were stabbed to death with a knife. When he started stabbing those kids to death, pity there wasn't a law-abiding citizen with a gun there to shoot him.


The shooter had been seen by several therapists and a social worker - who had called police to relay concerns some time ago.


Oh yeah, totally blame the NRA for this. Totally....

Anybody seen IB lately?

If there was no gun in the house, maybe he beats her, throws her through a window, hits her with a golf club or stabs her with a pair of kitchen shears. All of those scenarios are eminently more survivable than getting shot in the face at close range.

I am sorry for your wife's loss of a friend.

But there will always be that "gun in the house" with people who have anger management issues. Getting rid of all the guns in America is the liberal fantasy equivalent of conservatives' fantasy of deporting all the illegal aliens. Except getting rid of all the guns is even more wildly impossible. There are as many guns in America as there are people. We have been a pro-gun country since the pilgrims stepped off the Mayflower with their blunderbusses.

There are places like Chicago where the anti-gun lobby has been most successful, and where gun laws are very restrictive. How's that working out for the Windy City?

Jungle Rat wrote:
Anybody seen IB lately?

The car involved was a beemer, not a neon.

But yeah - the manifesto against women definitely had a familiar ring to it.

Anybody seen IB lately?

He never really recovered from Romney's loss.

AlabamAlum wrote:

Johnette's Daddy wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:A psychotic young man goes on a rampage and kills 6 because girls won't pay him attention is horrible. Of the 6 he killed, half were stabbed to death with a knife. When he started stabbing those kids to death, pity there wasn't a law-abiding citizen with a gun there to shoot him.


The shooter had been seen by several therapists and a social worker - who had called police to relay concerns some time ago.


Oh yeah, totally blame the NRA for this. Totally....

What you left out:

A psychotic young man legally obtains a gun.

Funny how that keeps happening.

The NRA's opposition to any measure that places a modicum of oversight on gun trafficking is shameful. In many states, it's harder to buy Sudafed for your sinuses than it is to buy a gun. Then you gun nuts blame every other segment of society when someone who has no business with a gun gets one legally and shoots up a school . . . or a post office . . . or a mall . . . or a house of worship . . . or an Army base . . . or a TV station . . . or a UPS store . . . or a Laundromat . . . or a child care center . . .

I haven't heard that he bought this gun legally, but I find it no funnier than a psychotic man legally obtaining a car, a bucket of acid, or a butcher knife (like the one the young man killed half his victims with). This happened in California, which has a good array of gun laws. But sure. Blame the NRA.

The anti-gun idiots are quick to blame everyone, too. Except, of course, the person who....you know...actually pulled the trigger. Now THAT'S shameful.

Two fairly eloquent POVs on the subject of gun control imo...and you are both right.

And the fact that you can both be right just points out the inevitability of it all. A quarter of the U.S. population meets the criteria for possessing at least one 'mental disorder.' Over half of the population owns guns (300 million guns are a best estimate). It's safe to infer that 30 million unstable Americans can cradle a firearm at any given moment.

Thing is, you can't round up all the potentially threatening people. And you sure as hell can't round up all the guns. It's an exercise in futility to even consider undertaking either on some kind of massive scale.

I believe we're headed towards some Orwellian future whereby handguns will be a natural piece of equipment for most...a pistol in one pocket and a cellphone in the other. Closer to that NRA adage about 'a well-armed society is a polite society.' The hope being that an influx of good guns will drive out or mitigate the damage wrought by the bad ones.

I believe we're headed towards something Orwellian future whereby handguns will be a natural piece of equipment for most...a pistol in one pocket and a cellphone in the other.

That's already the case in parts of urban America.

Professor Tiger wrote:

I believe we're headed towards some Orwellian future whereby handguns will be a natural piece of equipment for most...a pistol in one pocket and a cellphone in the other.

That's already the case in parts of urban America.

Oh, no doubt. Chicago for sure..right?

Less gun violence means gun control isn't needed. More gun violence means gun control isn't working.