The Goat Pen

Toemeesleather wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:He was probably an evil man. Though I'm not sure Christ's teachings or the 8th Amendment have disclaimers stating that neither apply to evil men.

Then there's the proven cases of people being executed and later exonerated...I'm not sure how anyone shrugs that off and says the executions are too important to ever stop over a few "mistakes".

Pls give detail of Christ's teachings re: late term abortions.

Let's focus on one subject at a time. You belong to the party that wants this to be a Christian nation, right? I'm not. How does dealing out slow and painful deaths to criminals fit in with Christ's teachings about mercy and grace?

Abolition of the death penalty seems to be a hallmark of secular democracy rather than anything that needs to be squared with Christian beliefs. I think most mainstream church authorities generally agree that execution as a form of justice is acceptable, and it has been the norm in "Christendom"

aTm wrote:Abolition of the death penalty seems to be a hallmark of secular democracy rather than anything that needs to be squared with Christian beliefs. I think most mainstream church authorities generally agree that execution as a form of justice is acceptable, and it has been the norm in "Christendom"

Doubtful.

Most "mainstream" churches require seminary education and seminaries accredited by the Association of Theological Schools (the recognized accrediting agency, on par with Western/Eastern Association of Schools & Colleges), by and large are much more grace, peace and justice centered.

Now, if you're equating Liberty with mainstream, heh. But most mainstream denominations are anti-death penalty (Anglican, Disciples of Christ, Episcopal, Evangelical Lutheran, National Baptists, Presbyterian, Progressive Baptists, United Churches of Christ, United Methodists, etc.). Even the Southern Baptists have moderated their stance to "we urge that capital punishment be administered only when the pursuit of truth and justice result in clear and overwhelming evidence of guilt; and" "without reference to the race, class, or status of the guilty;" and the Lutheran-Missouri Synod folks, while acknowledging the government's authority to implement capital punishment, now asserts that having that authority doesn't mandate using it.

The Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church in America, and all the jurisdictions of Judaism oppose the death penalty.

I used to favor the death penalty until I moved to Illinois. Use of DNA tests of evidence used in capital convictions proved that a large number of inmates on death row could not have committed the crimes. Taking of a human life is serious business, and Illinois' justice system had completely failed. I'm sure Illinois isn't alone. That changed my opinion on the death penalty.

Plus, for those people who like the death penalty as a form of retribution, life without possibility of parole inflicts more pain on a criminal (especially a young one) than the death penalty. When you're a thug in your 20's and you're full of piss and vinegar, death doesn't scare you that much. But the prospect of being in your 50's, 60's and 70's still in jail, gradually losing touch with family and friends, never having sex with a woman, and dying in jail alone - THAT is retribution, if that's your goal.

Christ didn't protest his own execution so maybe he's ok with it...

Let's focus on one subject at a time. You belong to the party that wants this to be a Christian nation, right? I'm not. How does dealing out slow and painful deaths to criminals fit in with Christ's teachings about mercy and grace?


Look, we both believe in the death penalty. The difference is (Christian or no) I believe it should be vetted by a jury and you don't.
Scalpel to the spinal cord? Nothing cruel and unusual about that.

" I think most mainstream church authorities generally agree that execution as a form of justice is acceptable, and it has been the norm in "Christendom""

Indeed, since Day One. Literally...

"Even the Southern Baptists have moderated their stance to "we urge that capital punishment be administered only when the pursuit of truth and justice result in clear and overwhelming evidence of guilt;"

Well what are they supposed to say? "Only in cases where the accused seems like a really, really bad person"?

Hate crimes.

I used the term "acceptable" and didn't say anything about them supporting it for a reason.

They may oppose it on a political basis, but do all of those denominations oppose it on a religious basis? Do they believe that anybody is sinning or committing murder when performing an execution? It seemed to me that DSLs argument was based on religious interpretation of Christ's beliefs not a mere statement of what churches support politically.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's...

A nicely worded nod to historical materialism, only to be obliterated by the tacitly higher mandate of what follows immediately..

hedge wrote:" I think most mainstream church authorities generally agree that execution as a form of justice is acceptable, and it has been the norm in "Christendom""

Indeed, since Day One. Literally...

For the first 3 centuries, Chrisitians were on the receiving end of the death penalty.

The Connecticut crime where the doctor was beaten nearly to death and his wife and two daughters were raped and burned alive in their own home....what case could be made that the death penalty shouldn't be appropriate for those two cowards?

"For the first 3 centuries, Chrisitians were on the receiving end of the death penalty."

You gotta crack a few eggs if you want to make an omelette...

bluetick wrote:The Connecticut crime where the doctor was beaten nearly to death and his wife and two daughters were raped and burned alive in their own home....what case could be made that the death penalty shouldn't be appropriate for those two cowards?

Not knowing the specifics of that case, how sure are we that the convicts really did it? Is there any possibility that this was an Illinois-style conviction?
The death penalty is irreversible and eliminates the possibility that the falsely convicted can be exonerated later, as happened a lot in Illinois.
The death penalty would not undo that horrible crime.
Life without parole would be just as effective as the death penalty in preventing the criminals from repeating their crime.
If you want the convicts to suffer, make them rot in prison the rest of their lives. Don't give them the quick easy exit of a death sentence.

Hang them dirtbags. Screw this humane drug stuff.

The US has killed many innocents in the war on terror. Part of price war brings us. Same can be said for the war on crime. Sometimes the innocent die. Again, part of war. Deal with it.

A 19 year old and an 11 month old? Make em choke on their own nut sacks.