Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Professor Tiger]

Jeb's wife is Mexican-American, so that may cut into the Dems domination of that vote

Would the Hispanic community consider Jeb's Mexican-American wife a "Tia Tomas"?

[Professor Tiger]

Yeah, I know. "At this point WHAT DOES IT MATTER?!"

I call it the Hillary defense. That's whenever you are a high-ranking government official that gets caught red-handed being incompetent, and people get killed because of your incompetence, and then you have everyone who works for you lie about over and over again to cover your lethal incompetence.

It only seems to work for Hillary. Never for anybody else.

[10ac]

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-ha ... ndy-ranch/

Aha!

[Professor Tiger]

Sounds like that rancher is the biggest threat to national security since the Little Sisters of the Poor.

This could become Obama's Ruby Ridge if he's not careful. (Not that anybody cares about Ruby Ridge, but I digress...)

[Jungle Rat]

http://sftimes.co/?id=413&src=share_fb_new_413

[Professor Tiger]

Funny.

I'm still not convinced that anything bad will happen to Christie since everybody knows Bridgegate is obviously a "phony scandal." In fact, by Dem standards, even if they have emails and wiretaps of Christie ordering the bridge lanes closed, it will still be a phony scandal simply by the MSM calling it that over and over.

But if his candidacy does crash and burn, the GOP Establishment will have to select another nominee. My guess is it will be Jeb Bush. From the Establishment's perspective he as trustworthy as they come. The average American voter, including most non-country club Republicans, are still recovering from Bush fatigue. But the country clubbers have never cared all that much that their selectee can't possibly win a general election (Romney, McCain, Dole). They'll still get their way when their guy loses. It's just as easy for them to advance their agenda by bribing D's as R's in power.

The possibility of another Bush vs. Clinton election is somewhat comical, but it would be one-sided. I agree with JD that the name "Bush" conjures up ill-conceived wars, recession, and general incompetence, i.e. bad times. Conversely, the name "Clinton" conjures up a booming economy and oral sex in the office, i.e. good times.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Jeb's wife is Mexican-American, so that may cut into the Dems domination of that vote

Would the Hispanic community consider Jeb's Mexican-American wife a "Tia Tomas"?

"Tia Tomasina?" No, I believe the Xicano phrase is "Coconut" (tan on the outside, white on the inside). The polar opposite of a Xicammunist [chicammunist (sic)].

[Professor Tiger]

So, granting your point, would the Hispanic community look at a Republican Latina Mrs. Jeb Bush the same way that the African American community looks at Republicans of color? Therefore, having a Hispanic wife wouldn't help Bush among Latinos at all?

[Johnette's Daddy]

Funny.

I'm still not convinced that anything bad will happen to Christie since everybody knows Bridgegate is obviously a "phony scandal." In fact, by Dem standards, even if they have emails and wiretaps of Christie ordering the bridge lanes closed, it will still be a phony scandal simply by the MSM calling it that over and over.

But if his candidacy does crash and burn, the GOP Establishment will have to select another nominee. My guess is it will be Jeb Bush. From the Establishment's perspective he as trustworthy as they come. The average American voter, including most non-country club Republicans, are still recovering from Bush fatigue. But the country clubbers have never cared all that much that their selectee can't possibly win a general election (Romney, McCain, Dole). They'll still get their way when their guy loses. It's just as easy for them to advance their agenda by bribing D's as R's in power.

The possibility of another Bush vs. Clinton election is somewhat comical, but it would be one-sided. I agree with JD that the name "Bush" conjures up ill-conceived wars, recession, and general incompetence, i.e. bad times. Conversely, the name "Clinton" conjures up a booming economy and oral sex in the office, i.e. good times.

The heart of the matter is that an electable GOP candidate could never make it through the GOP primary system. Shoot, Ronald Reagan would be on the wrong side of many of the conservative talk radio puppet masters (Gun Control, NAFTA, immigration, gay rights).

An acquaintance of mine is a former member of the GOP Central Committee for California and is one of the highest ranking black elected Republican females in the state. In private, she will tell you that - even in California - the "base" has become so blatantly racist and sexist that it's tough for her, as a strong fiscal conservative/meritocrat who was personally cultivated by Reagan, to sit through party meetings.

What the staunchest conservatives never address are the implications of the influx of racism into the Party of Lincoln with the Southern Strategy. It worked well from 1968 to 1992, as the GOP won the popular vote in 5 of 6 Presidential elections. But now they've lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6, because the GOP basically concedes 95% of the Black vote and 75% of the Asian and Hispanic vote, meaning that the GOP basically needs 67% of the white vote to win a national election. And that's across the board - they'll have to take 67% of white women, 67% of white LGBT, 67% of white liberals, 67% of white union members, 67% of white atheists, etc., and that's just not doable.

The shame of it is that there are plenty of Asians, Blacks and Latinos who are "fiscal" or "moral" conservatives who would support a GOP candidate were it not for the overt racism. What does the race look like if the GOP takes 20% of the Black vote instead of 5%? 35% of the Latino vote instead of 25%? 40% of the Asian vote instead of 25%?

Just on the issue of same sex marriage - I'm a supporter but a great many of my Asian, Black and Latino pastor colleagues are anti to the point of it being a single issue for them and they would back the GOP unconditionally over this issue EXCEPT for the fact that the GOP is so blatantly racist and race-baiting on every other issue. (I know, ironic that they would joyfully stand with bigots on the sex issue were it not for the fact that they were the targets of racial bigotry from the same folks).

[Johnette's Daddy]

So, granting your point, would the Hispanic community look at a Republican Latina Mrs. Jeb Bush the same way that the African American community looks at Republicans of color? Therefore, having a Hispanic wife wouldn't help Bush among Latinos at all?

15 years ago, she'd have had a great impact. She would be of some help now because FLOTUS is, in many ways, the most high-profile position in the land, so some would be proud and happy that she would be getting the Good Housekeeping cover, the fluff interviews on GMA, etc., but I couldn't see her moving the Latino electorate more than 4-5 points. The Latino voter has grown in sophistication (and participation) over the last 4 cycles, however, and are probably the most immersed in "their" issues, so what is more important is where Jeb stands on Latino issues. Jeb has a solid history of supporting immigration and other issues of import for Latinos (not just Bautista-ite Cubans, who are dying out), so he'd be formidable in the general election. Wouldn't win the Latino vote, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him take 40% of it.

Romney got 27% of the 24,000,000 Latino votes, or 6.5 million. If Jeb got 40% - that's 9.6 million, or an increase of over 3 million votes. Romney lost by 5 million, so if the Latino vote is more in play, Jeb has more paths to victory. Indeed, depending on where those 3 million votes come from, he could win the Electoral College without winning the popular (as his brother did).

[Johnette's Daddy]

BUT

Rather than targeting Latinos, Blacks, Asians, etc., and making their tent bigger by peeling off some Dem supporters, the GOP strategy is to suppress voters, decrease the pool of votes and hope to hold on to their number of White votes, getting a bigger percentage of a smaller pie.

That will ultimately bite them in the butt, however, because the backlash is creating increased voter registration and turnout efforts, particularly among Latinos. 19.5 million voted in 2008, 24 million in 2012. If that number hits 30 million in 2016, with most of the new voters responding to a (Republicans don't want Latinos to vote!) message, that's a disaster for the GOP.

Despite all of the suppression efforts, there will be millions of new voters every election cycle, and at least 40% of them will be non-white. The GOP cannot continue conceding that 40%+ to the Dems and fighting strictly over the White voter.

GOP has become like the Boers in S. Africa in the 80s. Instead of adapting and changing, they're digging in.

[Professor Tiger]

About the only issue where I side with the GOP Establishment vs. the social/fiscal conservatives is illegal immigration. The country clubbers have their own reason for legalizing illegal aliens - they are a cheap source of labor which makes them a lot of money, which is basically all they care about.

But I agree that the R's antagonizing the Hispanics is a political death wish. I totally favor any effort to get control of our border. But whenever I hear R conservatives angrily dream of an America where we deport 11 million people who are already here, I roll my eyes. You can love them or you can hate them, but they aren't... going... anywhere. And every time the deportation dreamers in the GOP talk, they are guaranteeing tens of thousands of people who will never forget it. And they will pass that bitter memory to children and grandchildren, who will vote accordingly. If Hispanics vote against the R's anywhere near the same 90%+ that African Americans automatically do, we will be a one-party country.

[Professor Tiger]

An acquaintance of mine is a former member of the GOP Central Committee for California and is one of the highest ranking black elected Republican females in the state. In private, she will tell you that - even in California - the "base" has become so blatantly racist and sexist that it's tough for her, as a strong fiscal conservative/meritocrat who was personally cultivated by Reagan, to sit through party meetings.

Just out of curiosity, what is the California Republican party doing that is so overtly racist? Are they trying to bring back whites only water fountains, poll taxes, literacy tests, etc?

[Dr. Strangelove]

An acquaintance of mine is a former member of the GOP Central Committee for California and is one of the highest ranking black elected Republican females in the state. In private, she will tell you that - even in California - the "base" has become so blatantly racist and sexist that it's tough for her, as a strong fiscal conservative/meritocrat who was personally cultivated by Reagan, to sit through party meetings.

Just out of curiosity, what is the California Republican party doing that is so overtly racist? Are they trying to bring back whites only water fountains, poll taxes, literacy tests, etc?

Sending out emails with "Obama dollars" that have watermelon and fried chicken on them. Or photoshops of Obama's face on a chimp's body with the caption "now you know why no birth certificate"

(And yes, California Republican Party officials sent around both hilarious jokes)

[Professor Tiger]

I just googled it. Wow. That's disgusting. Seriously.

[Johnette's Daddy]

[youtube]jRUGAoLJbPk[/youtube]

The woman I referred to was a member of that GOP women's club and was the one who got the state party to denounce it, but it took a LOT of grinding on her part to get them to do so.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Most people don't realize it, but California is a microcosm of the US itself: the coastal counties (LA, San Diego, San Francisco/Alameda) are hotbeds of liberalism and the rest of the state is Oklahoma. So much of the population lives in the big 3 metro areas, however, that the other 85 counties really don't matter politically.

A lot of central California is populated by people who migrated during the Dust Bowl. Bakersfield (also known as Buckersfield, because Country music singer Buck Owens' family moved there from Oklahoma in the 30s), is about 100 miles away from my house in L.A., but it might as well be a million. It's economy is based on oil and cotton fields (Kern County produces more oil than any other county in the US), and one of the largest pig farms in the country operated there for years.

Fontana (where I used to pastor) is 60 miles from downtown L.A., boasts one of the largest Nascar speedways in the country and - in 1991 - attracted national attention when the filming of Terminator II had to be postponed because of a Ku Klux Klan rally. There was also a cross burning on an interracial couple's lawn in 1997 - an hour away from the Los Angeles City Hall.

[10ac]

UPDATE: Sheriff Announces BLM Will Cease Operation...
'Serious concern about safety of employees and public'...
Backdown Comes Hours After Reid/China Land Grab Report...
Confiscated Cattle to be Released...

[AlabamAlum]

a good friend of mine diagnosed with inoperable cancer. Hitting me hard. Drinking.

[Jungle Rat]

Sorry to hear that man