The Goat Pen

i don't think it's a bad pick based on the fact that they are pursuing Nash in the off season. If all rumours are true, Nash wants a large final deal and it's very clear he respects and admires BC so it's not far fetched. He would also get alot more endorsements with the whole "Canadian" thing going.

Nash makes good shooters look great. If they believe they will get Nash, then there really wasn't many players left that were worth taking (unless you would plan to trade). The guys who went after were largely point guards or big men. With Nash you don't need another PG and we already have too many average big men. I think he simply wanted the best available shooter which is what we got.

It could have been worse.... remember Arajao?

Nash is coming to LA...for cheap.

honestly I would have thought Nash was a bit far fetched but he has been quoted saying that he isn't interested in a low dollar or MLE salary which rules out the majority of teams in the NBA.

He would be a rock star in TO as opposed to being 2nd fiddle anywhere else so it becomes intriguing. I am not sure that is a motivating factor for him but he also doesn't seem desperate to win a championship as a role player. I wouldn't be surprised if he got some hand shake agreements on future employment (ie. after playing) as well.

anyways, at least makes it interesting for a Raps fan because he would make the Raps a playoff team in the East. (with the addition of Valuncias). and i wouldn't be surprised if his addition opened the trading doors as well (both from a perspective of moving Calderon as well as players wanting to come to TO to play with him).

my justification is different

this was Casey's pick.... thru & thru

a legit 2 way player, and BC has never cared for the defensive side of the ball, when you dig deeper there's a couple major pointers

1) Casey still makes his home Seattle, has a pipeline to Northwest Pacific talent, knows the parents and believes in their pedigree, great friends with Lorenzo Romar

2) The kid can guard the perimeter and specifically picked up well on Casey's Zone & Man schemes during workouts

I believe in Casey and his one year has (during a lockout shortened season) turned our presence on the defensive side of the ball around completely, I believe Ross addresses those concerns

One more thing I'd like to add is Mark Cuban's latest rant against Skip Bayless & Stephen A Smith, if you read between the lines is a testament to Casey

1) Saying LeBron "wanted it more" this year completely discounts how Dallas made him disappear last year using zones & relying on advanced stats, everybody wants it at this stage, it's a matter of execution

2) Casey's defensive scheme against Miami in last year's finals is practically impossible to install during a lockout shortened season, they played entire preseason games going only zone and practiced it dilligently during the off-days that this type of season could not afford the Thunder

This IS Araujo pick all over again. Picking based on need. They identified a need and picked the safest guy that addresses the need, BPG be damned.

Colangelo and team did a shit job of tanking and got a shit lotto pick instead of a good one. Then they lost a fucking coin toss to Golden State on top of that. The least they could've done was go for a homerun pick in Drummond or go for a guy like Lamb who probably has a higher ceiling.

I don't care if Nash is coming, nobody knows this for sure until he actually comes. And why the fuck do you build a team around a 38-year old anyway? How long's that team gonna last even if successful? If he wasn't Canadian, I don't even know why the heck you'd want him, the only reason I'd be ok with him is because he's Canadian and I'd only want him under a reasonable contract. His value ends at being a mentor to our young guys and you still need guys that can learn then eventually take over without him in a few years. Not someone whose usefulness begins and ends with Nash, which is what Ross is apparently (he can't create his own shot due to his limited ballhandling). That just boggles my mind.

And I understand Drummond is a project but when you shit your tank job and he's the only prospect left with All-Star potential, you take him. His kind of athlete is very rare. If you are worried about what we already have, trade Amir Johnson and Ed Davis. I think you can get a Terrence Ross or something similar using those guys. I don't care if Nash is coming, he's here for sentimental value ONLY and isn't here to win anything meaningful.

I think this draft pick and the second rounder Quincy Acy over Quincy Miller shows what Colangelo's out to do. Save his own skin and his expiring contract. I'm seriously worried about the state the team will be in after offseason. Colangelo will be going all out making short-sighted and franchise-hampering moves.

as for all the Raptor fans ready to walk off a cliff into Lake Ontario :

1) Drummond is a good kid & a freak athlete, but 29% freethrow shooting isnt going to get it done, no way no how

2) Lamb is long & measures well... but he's lost defensively, sweet stroke & his percentages from 17 & in are amazing. I was high on the kid but in our system he may have never seen the floor due to his game on the other side of the ball

3) Missing out on Barnes hurts & I think both Casey and Colangelo were licking their chops when everyone thought G-State takes Drummond 7th.... the most painful thing, it was a coin flip. A coin flip became the final determining factor between us drafting Harrison Barnes or Terrence Ross, and that hurts... and we did it to ourselves.

I dont want to hear shyt from anti-tankers about the losing culture it creates, we won some games down the stretch that we had no business winning. While I do believe at 8 Ross was the best 2 way player, Barnes was the prize & we missed out.

1) I'm sure that FT% is workable. He's young, second youngest in draft, he can learn.

2) Lamb IS long. I think he has the tools to be a good defender. I don't watch college ball but apparently, he was fine on that end the year before. Just last year, there was too much shit going on on that team. I was so disgusted when Casey talked about Ross having great length. The dude's 6'7" with 6'7" wingspan. That's an aligator arm in NBA. The dude's got below average length and skinny as hell. I see this dude's upside seriously limited just from a physical standpoint on top of his limited handle whereas that isn't the case for Lamb.

Well, we'll have to wait & see

I'm just saying, being long doesnt help you make the correct defensive rotation, or give you the instinct to see that rotation 2 steps ahead. Colangelo's track record is to not even take that into account, Casey's isn't.

We could draft the best shooter in the draft (Jenkins from Vanderbilt?) but if he cant play 2 ways he maybe gets 10 minutes for Casey. One or 2 defensive miscues and back to the bench. This kid has 2 things, good defense & range shooting.

I've watched our defense Yoss, and I call BS on any NBA announcer who says defense is about hustle & effort. We make the wrong rotation too many times, when you see 2 guys closing out a shooter that means someone fukked up. Defensive rotations & understanding a matchup zone in today's NBA is more instinctual than learning to dribble.

29 ft% is workable to what degree?

maybe get him up to 50%? really? because that's a 20 point increase.

Casey got his way here with Ross.... and Casey possibly liked Drummond's ability to defend the rim, but can he play the system? Even if he could, BC's MO will never be to take a bigman who cant even make his throws, not even Casey has that kind of pull.

The only possible downside is this, if were going to start drafting Casey players then we have to be committed to him long term as a coach for this system to work. If he gets fired then the next guy better be his disciple.

Yeah, I am with you dot. I personally don't see the hysteria over the 8th pick. I personally think any player from 4-14 is just as likely to be as good as the next guy....they all have good and bad.

I personally have never liked Barnes so I didn't feel we "missed out" per se. I was intrigued with Beal/Waiters/Lilliard ---- guys who had the potential to be available at 8 but they were all gone. I am a Duke fan and Rivers never impressed me and Drummond is a project with a capital P. I honestly see little difference in him than I did with Hasheem Thabeet.

as for Nash and "building around a 38 year old".... ummmm, what other top notch free agent would even consider TO in order to consider making them a building block? You have to start somewhere and right now Bargs/DeRoz are not guys to be the pillar. At least with Nash you overpay for a few years rather than 5 or 6 like most max contracts.

Is Nash ideal to turn around a franchise into a champion? NO. Is there a better option other than sucking for 3 more years and hoping draft picks work out? I have watched enough bad basketball that being above .500 would be a welcome sight for a couple years.

Nash as a primary plan is far from ideal but the #8 pick in the draft rarely becomes a long term all star or franchise savior. How many guys drafted 8 or higher have played in 3 or more all star games? I have no idea but I would guess very few (not counting high school guys like Kobe who were high risk back then).

I see BCs vision and he's making the most out of his situation. Yes, I wish we had the allure of NY or LA to entice players but it's not reality. We get leftovers. At least Nash is better than what is truly available to us.

sotola wrote:I personally think any player from 4-14 is just as likely to be as good as the next guy....they all have good and bad. .

exactly, which makes the silliness of trading down so ludicrous

if every GM thinks 4-14 is is on the same playing field then whatGM would trade us an asset for the 8th pick, people still think we could have done 8 + Calderon for Lowery & 14... then take Ross there

BS, no way Mory goes for that

Houston got Lamb & Royce White & Terrence Jones.... that's a big haul, and probably lands them the top consensus top draft grade among all the the major authorities, but they were supposed to package Lowery & 14 to move up to 8?

fuqqouttahere

Like I said, Barnes was our guy, maybe Lillard too.... didnt pan out, Ross is the best pick there

I'll make another post with regards to Nash

On Nash and the T.O.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... oenix-suns

the Star today reported that the Raps have offered him 3yrs/36M... I am fine with that. It's a short term contract that allows the young guys to develop before they get bigger paydays. It's definitely overpaying but I would gladly overpay for a player like Nash than a player who may or may not develop.

At least with Nash you know what you are getting. You aren't getting the MVP guard but he is still far better than most.

as for the post career opportunities... yeah, I told my wife that was gonna be one of the biggest things in terms of selling him. He will join the front office in some capacity especially with the new ownership.... they can use him even after his playing days to market the organization.

Not a fan of this whole thing at all.... but if overpaying Nash leads to us not overpaying Lin then I'm cool with it

The big question now is what happens to Calderon, seems like BC is shopping him hard to teams that can absorb his deal straight up so that we can still keep our Amnesty

sad thing is, were still the Raptors, a tonne of capspace & no one to use it on

if we do amnesty Jose, sounds like the Spurs will scoop him up.... he would be a maniac as a 9 assist (obviously it wont be 9 as a backup) - high efficiency guy backing up Tony Parker, I'd actually be excited to see that

re = sad thing is, were still the Raptors, a tonne of capspace & no one to use it on

which is why I would actually like to get a decent player with it. I am totally with ya on Lin. Lin is a decent player but offering him starter money is going to be a huge mistake for whatever team does. He is far too error prone for my liking and his shot selection is questionable at best. I would rather have Jose for a few more years than Lin.

Nash is not ideal but even if the market had a ton of quality free agents.... we would get whats leftover. I would prefer a short term over payment than a long term over payment gamble. For example, I like Hibbert but I think Portland is absolutely dumb to offer him that kind of money. All star or not.... I think that one comes back to bite them.

As for Calderon, if the 12M/year is accurate, all they would have to do is rescind the qualifying offer to Bayless to be comfortably under the cap.... I think they can still swing it and keep Bayless but not sure how much Valuncias/Ross are slated to get for their rookies contracts. We only have about 41M in salaries so there is still a lot of room under the cap.

Marc Stein reports that the Raptors have agreed to terms with Knicks RFA guard Landry Fields, at three years for around $20 million. That's exactly the sort of backloaded, poison pill deal we wrote about yesterday—the Knicks have the right to match the offer, but probably not the financial wherewithal. So the Raptors take advantage of a CBA loophole to overpay a not-very-good player. Why? Steve Nash.

Both the Knicks and Raptors are in on Nash, with Toronto being able to offer superior money, and the Knicks only a midlevel exception worth $5 million or so. But there was hope in New York's front office that they could work out a sign-and-trade with Phoenix, where Nash could get paid closer to what he deserves in exchange for some flotsam and expiring deals. The most valuable piece in any potential trade the Knicks could offer would have been Landry Fields.

Fields is serviceable, but not for $20 million over three. But if that's what it takes to muscle the Knicks, Toronto's only real competition, out of the Steve Nash sweepstakes, then it's a brilliant move. The Raps have the cap space to overpay Fields if it guarantees them Nash, so the move is worthwhile, underhanded, and completely within the rules. Bryan Colangelo is an evil genius.

creatively evil. I likes.

at 19 mil over 3 years?

crazy crazy crazy, Fields better show up in pre-Melo form