The Goat Pen

please do

What are the rules for cops? You know, considering they are the ones trained to deal with civilians...

cops are in a no win situation damned if they do damned if they don't

they are often humiliated in public used and abused in courtrooms

they are often cast as liars and inefficient bums by any lawyer they come across---why do you think there are so many lawyers begging for your DUI case--very easy to win. sexual assaults another easy one for the defense to prove cop negligence of some type another. if you have any moneuy at all to hire a defense lawyer first to be attacked will be the process the cops

can you imagine what its like for a marked police car to go driving through the south side of Chicago or the near north side of KC or philly or baltimo re--just to be met with hatred and resistance wherever they are

all for 20-k to 40 k a year starting out in many places. be easier to work at mcdonalds

Bklyn wrote:What are the rules for cops? You know, considering they are the ones trained to deal with civilians...

there is only one rule that matters - go home to your family alive and safe

that rule overrides every other rule put in place.

crashcourse wrote:cops are in a no win situation damned if they do damned if they don't

they are often humiliated in public used and abused in courtrooms

they are often cast as liars and inefficient bums by any lawyer they come across---why do you think there are so many lawyers begging for your DUI case--very easy to win. sexual assaults another easy one for the defense to prove cop negligence of some type another. if you have any moneuy at all to hire a defense lawyer first to be attacked will be the process the cops

can you imagine what its like for a marked police car to go driving through the south side of Chicago or the near north side of KC or philly or baltimo re--just to be met with hatred and resistance wherever they are

all for 20-k to 40 k a year starting out in many places. be easier to work at mcdonalds

I don't necessarily agree with all of that.

Jeff Ross' Comedy Central special with the Boston PD was excellent at laying out the dynamics of where we are with police.

What I do know is that cops are not low man on the totem pole, as far as abuse in the court of law. They convey a level of trust and truth that is unprecedented by any other segment of society.

A few years ago I was on a constant rant about police changing from protect and serve to go home to your family safe . I understood what that meant and it's not just limited to their dealing with African Americans...nor is it limited to white cops interacting with minorities.

Keep in mind that under an African American president we have seen as escalation in the militarization of police. Yes Obama did step in to curb it at some point but the arming of local police with surplus military was a federal action. Its become a situation where the police see the public at large as an enemy where poverty sets the tone for threat level.

While I have my issues with police, it's a thankless job and as mentioned earlier...the police you get aren't the best and brightest...not for $50k a year.

The bigger issue however is that Americans - regardless of ethnicity want effective policing - but their demands for no profiling and greater police accountability will lead to less. Maybe technology like drones and robots will change that, but human to human interaction as it stands today with police is going to be profile and statistic driven.

"they are often cast as liars"

They often are liars...

eCat wrote:
The bigger issue however is that Americans - regardless of ethnicity want effective policing - but their demands for no profiling and greater police accountability will lead to less.

That is the bigger issue? Critique the cops and their effectiveness will drop? Ignore it and maybe it'll go away?

Charlotte will see riots today because another innocent black male (mistaken for someone else with an outstanding warrant) was killed, waiting to pick up a child at school.

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote:
The bigger issue however is that Americans - regardless of ethnicity want effective policing - but their demands for no profiling and greater police accountability will lead to less.

That is the bigger issue? Critique the cops and their effectiveness will drop? Ignore it and maybe it'll go away?

Charlotte will see riots today because another innocent black male (mistaken for someone else with an outstanding warrant) was killed, waiting to pick up a child at school.

so communities don't want more effective policing? They'll trade for ineffective policing to stop African American males from being shot by police? Lets ask residents of urban Chicago if they want that.

Charlotte is going to see riots today because a black male was killed. The family says he was reading a book. The cops say he had a gun. They have a gun at the scene. What happens if the gun is shown to be owned (and not a plant like you're going to assume) by the black male? The reason there is going to be riots is because the community at large has already created a narrative that says he was innocent. You have said it yourself . His daughter posting a live stream of the actions after the shooting saying "the police just shot my daddy for being black" adds to yet another incident of riots breaking out due to video post event giving a one sided narrative before the facts have an opportunity to come out.

its not critiquing the police, its exactly this - rioting and burning down your city in response to police treating you like people who would likely riot and burn down your city regardless of what facts come out as a result.

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eCat wrote:
so communities don't want more effective policing? They'll trade for ineffective policing to stop African American males from being shot by police? Lets ask residents of urban Chicago if they want that.

You keep making the point that more accountability means less effectiveness. Are you in management? Does that standard apply to other fields of endeavor, like firefighting or teaching or medicine?

Some law enforcement agencies are self-insured; most aren't. I've sold false arrest insurance for thirty years, and make no mistake - it ain't cheap. Insurance underwriters likely are all over this shooting in Charlotte. They will gather as much info as any IA department, or DA's office, if not more.

Charlotte is going to see riots today because a black male was killed. The family says he was reading a book. The cops say he had a gun. They have a gun at the scene. What happens if the gun is shown to be owned (and not a plant like you're going to assume) by the black male? The reason there is going to be riots is because the community at large has already created a narrative that says he was innocent. You have said it yourself . His daughter posting a live stream of the actions after the shooting saying "the police just shot my daddy for being black" adds to yet another incident of riots breaking out due to video post event giving a one sided narrative before the facts have an opportunity to come out.

Innocent until proven guilty. He IS innocent until proven guilty. That's not a narrative - it's a fact.

its not critiquing the police, its exactly this - rioting and burning down your city in response to police treating you like people who would likely riot and burn down your city regardless of what facts come out as a result.

YOU said "the bigger issue is people wanting more effective policing, but also wanting more police accountability, which will lead to LESS effective policing. Now it's "exactly" something else. Try to at least be consistent.

your lack of understanding doesn't mean I'm not consistent.

I'm not sure how you define more accountability but if police are going to live in fear of prosecution, or moreso to the extent, politicians going on witch hunts without evidence to suppress a discontent public (see Baltimore), then yes, police will be less effective. As I said before, they're not going to respond to those calls to get rid of those drug dealers on my stoop or the guy circling the neighborhood 4 times in a row because they'll fear backlash or prosecution for engaging the public

its a simple concept to understand. I'm not sure why you don't get it.

Innocent until proven guilty. He IS innocent until proven guilty. That's not a narrative - it's a fact.

good god almighty

at this point , just put me on lifetime ignore.

"Innocent until proven guilty. He IS innocent until proven guilty. That's not a narrative - it's a fact."

Are you referring to the guy that got killed or the cop who allegedly murdered him?

Well it has to be the victim and not the cop. The cop can do no right and black people can't be racist, you should know this by now.

crutcher the gentle giant had PCP in his car

might explain his behavior and why the female police officer felt the threat

anybody within 10-15 feet of you can charge you at a moments notice and still get to your gun even if you get 3-4 shots away

anybody on pcp double that

I love PCP...

[EDIT]

The old Rodney King explanation has been updated!

Whatever helps people sleep at night, I guess. Anthropologically, it's a goldmine here.

hedge wrote:"Innocent until proven guilty. He IS innocent until proven guilty. That's not a narrative - it's a fact."

Are you referring to the guy that got killed or the cop who allegedly murdered him?

The original comment was "the community at large creating a narrative that [the deceased] was innocent." I'd argue that the dead guy was an innocent bystander, sure. Considering he wasn't a target of the operation and he wasn't doing anything criminal. His presumption of innocence under the law is already a given.

crashcourse wrote:crutcher the gentle giant had PCP in his car

might explain his behavior and why the female police officer felt the threat

anybody within 10-15 feet of you can charge you at a moments notice and still get to your gun even if you get 3-4 shots away

anybody on pcp double that

Through her attorney she originally stated that she shot because he was reaching inside his SUV. Then it was determined that the door was never opened and the window was always shut. So now she claims he was patting his left pocket.

None of the other officers felt the need to use deadly force, ftr.

hedge walks up to me with hands in the air

lay down on the ground hedge I'm a cop I don't like how your acting are you on something

hedge refuses to lay on ground and continues walking around talking incoherently

get on the ground hedge or else

hedge then moves to his car where he reaches in trying to get something

I as a police officer shoot him before he gets whatever he was reaching for

so if its hedge I shoot anybody have a problems with that?