The Goat Pen

*Baptist Hospital Systems - which runs 14 hospitals in TN, MS and AR - are under the same constraints as the Catholics, as are dozens of Methodist, Adventist and other institutions affiliated with religions. Are Catholics under some greater scrutiny/oppression?

Baptists, Methodists, and Adventists don't oppose birth control (at least for married couples). So to answer your question, yes, the Catholics are under greater scrutiny/persecution because they do oppose birth control, unlike the others. And they are under federal legal attack for it. They were even going after a group of elderly nuns until Justice Sotomayor called off the dogs.

It just so happens that the federal government doesn't force the Baptists to provide free alcohol, Adventists to worship on Sunday and... I can't think of anything that the Methodists are opposed to.

What church do you belong to? I'd like to know what religious freedoms in your church that you would object to the government negating to appease a particular constituency.

Professor Tiger wrote:What church do you belong to? I'd like to know what religious freedoms in your church that you would object to the government negating to appease a particular constituency.

I am currently a Methodist pastor. I've pastored in the Presbyterian system and was born/raised Baptist.

Well like I said, I can't think of anything that Methodists are morally opposed to, so let's go with the Baptists since you (and I) have been there.

Would you be at all disturbed if the federal government ordered the Baptist church to provide free alcohol to its employees? After all, the 21st amendment explicitly ended Prohibition, giving Americans the right to consume alcohol. And if we have a right to drink, then the government should force every employer - including the teatotaling Baptist churches - should be forced to provide free alcohol to its employees right? To let Baptist churches follow their beliefs and fail to provide free alcohol would violate the constitutional rights of alcohol drinkers, correct? After all, we can't expect drinkers to pay for their own alcohol, no? Unless the Baptist churches provide free alcohol, drinkers would be forced to resort to dangerous back alley stills, am I right?

"It just so happens that the federal government doesn't force the Baptists to provide free alcohol, Adventists to worship on Sunday and... I can't think of anything that the Methodists are opposed to."

I was raised methodist, and I wouldn't be opposed to the government providing a free pistol and ammo to any catholic who agreed to blow their own brains out...

"Perhaps instate, but nationally, no contest, Bush and the federal response was featured in the lead on Katrina reporting for weeks/months....even after he left office."

Weeks and months? That's nothing, it's now over a decade later and you still won't shut the fuck up about it...

False dichotomy. Catholics are not being forced to provide free birth control. They are being forced to cover birth control as a health issue. As it turns out, Catholic Hospitals have no issue with this, nor do Catholic nuns. Nor do most Americans who are Catholic. If they were Jehovah Witnesses that had a business or were operating in the market, they would be forced to provide insurance that allowed for the transfusion of blood. Or are you really saying that if the Jehovah Witnesses ran a bank, it's employees would not be allowed to receive blood (even if they are Baptist)?

Do you truly want employees in this country to bleed to death?

Professor Tiger wrote:Well like I said, I can't think of anything that Methodists are morally opposed to, so let's go with the Baptists since you (and I) have been there.

Would you be at all disturbed if the federal government ordered the Baptist church to provide free alcohol to its employees? After all, the 21st amendment explicitly ended Prohibition, giving Americans the right to consume alcohol. And if we have a right to drink, then the government should force every employer - including the teatotaling Baptist churches - should be forced to provide free alcohol to its employees right? To let Baptist churches follow their beliefs and fail to provide free alcohol would violate the constitutional rights of alcohol drinkers, correct? After all, we can't expect drinkers to pay for their own alcohol, no? Unless the Baptist churches provide free alcohol, drinkers would be forced to resort to dangerous back alley stills, am I right?

The issue is, as an employer, do they offer health care? If so, then they cannot restrict what they offer based on sectarian beliefs. If their employees are "good" Catholics, then they just won't avail themselves of the birth control.

Which is also my position on abortion. If it abhors you, then don't get one.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/14/updat ... k-comment/

enuff's enuff

I support the Catholic Church in their endeavor to get government out of their business. Problem is, I am not catholic. Most catholics disagree with their leadership on this and other moral issues. Even the pope himself is schizo with the issues of abortion and homosexuality. The biggest defender of catholic rights are Protestants evangelicals. Again, the catholic church has no moral backbone and can throw themselves on the heap of irrelevancy with the Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, and about half the Presbyterians.

Ever burp up dinner a few hours later & be like, "Oh yeah, that was good"?

I'm ready for Hillary.

I said burp not puke.

DSL is weeping....


CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (AP) — Workers at a Volkswagen factory in Tennessee have voted against union representation, a devastating loss that derails the United Auto Workers union’s effort to organize Southern factories.

The 712-626 vote released late Friday stunned many labor experts who expected a UAW win because Volkswagen tacitly endorsed the union and even allowed organizers into the Chattanooga factory to make sales pitches.

The UAW for decades has tried without success to organize a foreign-owned plant in a region that’s wary of organized labor. The loss now makes it even harder for the union to recruit members at another Southern factory

As it turns out, Catholic Hospitals have no issue with this, nor do Catholic nuns.

So no Catholic (and other religious) hospitals have a problem with being forced to provide contraception and/or abortifacients? Other than the following plaintiffs taking the government to court over this issue, you're absolutely right:

Little Sisters of the Poor (D. Colorado)
Catholic Diocese of Erie (W.D. Penn.)
Catholic Archdiocese of Fort Worth (N.D. Texas)
Ave Maria Foundation (E.D. Michigan – TRO)
Catholic Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend (N.D. Indiana)
Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh (W.D. Pennsylvania)
Catholic Archdiocese of NY (E.D. New York)
Geneva College (W.D. Pennsylvania)
Legatus (E.D. Michigan)
GuideStone/Reaching Souls (W.D. Oklahoma)
Southern Nazarene University v. Sebelius (W.D. Oklahoma)
ETBU & HBU (S.D. Texas)
Grace Schools (N.D. Indiana)
CNS Ministries (E.D. Missouri)
Catholic Archbishop of Washington (D.D.C.)
Priests for Life (D.D.C)
Catholic Diocese of Beaumont (E.D. Texas)
Catholic Diocese of Nashville (M.D. Tennessee)
Michigan Catholic Conference (W.D. Michigan)
Notre Dame (N.D. Indiana
Colorado Christian University (D. Colorado)
Ave Maria University (M.D. Florida)
Eternal Word Television Network (N.D. Alabama)
Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis (E.D. Missouri)
Belmont Abbey College (D.D.C.)
Wheaton College (N.D. Illinois)
Louisiana College (W.D. Louisiana)
College of the Ozarks (W.D. Missouri)
Catholic Archdiocese of Atlanta (N.D. Georgia)
Cornerstone University (N.D. Iowa)
Right to Life Michigan (W.D. Michigan)
Ave Maria School of Law (M.D. Florida)
FOCUS (D. Colorado)
Dobson (D. Colorado)
Catholic Diocese of Cheyenne (D. Wyoming)
Liberty University (W.D. Virginia)
Nebraska (D. Nebraska – voluntary dismissal)
Catholic Diocese of Biloxi (S.D. Mississippi)
Catholic Diocese of Peoria (C.D. Illinois)
Catholic Diocese of Dallas (N.D. Texas)
Franciscan University (S.D. Ohio)
Catholic Archdiocese of Miami (S.D. Florida)
Criswell College (N.D. Texas)
Catholic Diocese of Joliet (N.D. Illinois)
Wieland (E.D. Missouri)
American Family Association

http://www.becketfund.org/hhsinformationcentral/

So the Catholic nuns are fine with being forced to provide contraception and abortafacients against their religious faith? Then why did Justice Sotomayor recently force the DOJ to call off their legal domermans from the Little Sisters of the Poor?

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/18 ... s-20140119

Again, the catholic church has no moral backbone and can throw themselves on the heap of irrelevancy with the Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, and about half the Presbyterians.

I see a lot more Catholic entities on the above list of those fighting back than I see evangelical entities. Although I'm sure they appreciate the modest solidarity from Wheaton and Liberty.

The issue is, as an employer, do they offer health care? If so, then they cannot restrict what they offer based on sectarian beliefs.

Birth control coverage was optional to the employer until, what? 2 years ago? So they CAN restrict what they offer based on sectarian beliefs because they DID for about 70 years. They only question is whether the government gets away with their brand new attempt to take away this religious freedom away from churches or not.

Which is also my position on abortion. If it abhors you, then don't get one.

To that I respond, if you absolutely, positively must have free contraception and abortifacients provided by your employer's health plan, then don't work for the Catholic Church.

Not a huge hockey fan, but that was a helluva game between the rooskies and us. Even the wife was bouncing off the furniture.

Professor Tiger wrote:

Again, the catholic church has no moral backbone and can throw themselves on the heap of irrelevancy with the Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, and about half the Presbyterians.

I see a lot more Catholic entities on the above list of those fighting back than I see evangelical entities. Although I'm sure they appreciate the modest solidarity from Wheaton and Liberty.

What's surprising to me is the Catholic entities who are NOT on the list . . . there are well over 200 Catholic dioceses in the US, over 500 Catholic hospitals, 244 Catholic universities, hundreds of Catholic convents/monasteries, etc.

bluetick wrote:Not a huge hockey fan, but that was a helluva game between the rooskies and us. Even the wife was bouncing off the furniture.

So who won?

USA! USA!

::don't know who won but I felt like saying it anyway::