The Goat Pen

All officer involved shootings, make the officers involved make out a police report, statement within 4 hours. Their video must be confiscated and it is not released or made available to the public or to the officers involved for 3 days. The police report must be separated upon being made and given to a joint police/civilian board so that it cannot be changed and it is secured. (this is combat what happened in Ferguson where the policeman didn't give a statement or report until he reviewed all the evidence, video and interviews with witnesses). Body cameras and police cameras (will exonerate the police most of the time). Education of police departments over and over on de-escalation techniques.

Reminder to police that the 2nd Amendment also applies to African Americans (where are you NRA). No more he had a gun. Having a gun is a Constitutional Right.

Massive fines for Police Departments that are found to systematically target groups based on race (talking about you Ferguson) as found by the Justice Department.

BLM: See, have a goal with specific solutions you're pushing for. Protests for protests sake without a defined solution is not fruitful.

Jungle Rat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:The community's reluctance to deal with police is a deep and complicated issue. Part of it is police culture and the overhang of the 80s drug wars. Part of it is police corruption and the "Blue Wall of Silence" (the original "snitches get stitches" policy). The distrust is real and warranted...on both sides, most times.

True. 100%. Yet I would think that the honest percentage would help out to make things better

I've said this many times. I trust 90% of the police 90% of the time.

BLM's mission statement is to fight against government overreach on its citizens, not black on black crime. They're true to their mission statement even though their responses to such events are stupid and they hitch their wagon to wrong party if they don't want government overreach.

I hate this blaming shit on "rhetoric". BLM is not responsible for these thugs committing crimes just like Donald Trump rhetoric is not responsible for the guy in NJ shooting an iman or anti-abortionists responsible for the Atlanta Olympics bomber. Blaming acts on what people say is the global elitist strategy to erode at our 1st amendment rights.

"they hitch their wagon to wrong party if they don't want government overreach."

Just like the republican party is the wrong party to hitch your wagon to if you're a fiscal conservative...

no party is fiscally conservative

sardis wrote:no party is fiscally conservative

nope. Spend money on what each wants

if a white guy had a gun on him, was belligerent with police and ended up getting shot, white people would say uniformly,"well what did he think was going to happen? of course he got shot"

that's why I have trouble grasping the idea that BLM is really about black men being shot by police. Yes, I fully understand the concerns of a black parent with a young son having to worry every time they leave the house that they'll be targeted by the police unnecessarily. But BLM is a dangerous gamble to represent the issue here, especially when the line is blurred at best about separating BLM as peaceful, and at worse, complicit in inciting riots, violence, looting and attacks on police.

Matter of fact, it pretty much validates why the police are targeting and profiling to begin with. No one is talking about all the peaceful BLM protests because there are far too many ones that aren't.

sardis wrote:no party is fiscally conservative

Yep. Some politicians are...but no party is.

eCat wrote:if a white guy had a gun on him, was belligerent with police and ended up getting shot, white people would say uniformly,"well what did he think was going to happen? of course he got shot"

that's why I have trouble grasping the idea that BLM is really about black men being shot by police. Yes, I fully understand the concerns of a black parent with a young son having to worry every time they leave the house that they'll be targeted by the police unnecessarily. But BLM is a dangerous gamble to represent the issue here, especially when the line is blurred at best about separating BLM as peaceful, and at worse, complicit in inciting riots, violence, looting and attacks on police.

Matter of fact, it pretty much validates why the police are targeting and profiling to begin with. No one is talking about all the peaceful BLM protests because there are far too many ones that aren't.

If a white guy was shot for having a gun, the NRA would be up in arms saying he had a constitutional right to own a gun. But more importantly, if a 12 year old white kid is reported in a park playing with a gun, the police wouldn't drive up to him and kill him before ascertaining whether or not it was a toy first. If a white guy is laying down with his arms up saying that his charge is holding a toy (white and small), they wouldn't shoot at him 3 times. If a white guy is sitting at a table watching a fashion show 200 yards from a Klan protest, they wouldn't be questioned as to why they are there.

Owlman wrote:

eCat wrote:if a white guy had a gun on him, was belligerent with police and ended up getting shot, white people would say uniformly,"well what did he think was going to happen? of course he got shot"

that's why I have trouble grasping the idea that BLM is really about black men being shot by police. Yes, I fully understand the concerns of a black parent with a young son having to worry every time they leave the house that they'll be targeted by the police unnecessarily. But BLM is a dangerous gamble to represent the issue here, especially when the line is blurred at best about separating BLM as peaceful, and at worse, complicit in inciting riots, violence, looting and attacks on police.

Matter of fact, it pretty much validates why the police are targeting and profiling to begin with. No one is talking about all the peaceful BLM protests because there are far too many ones that aren't.

If a white guy was shot for having a gun, the NRA would be up in arms saying he had a constitutional right to own a gun. But more importantly, if a 12 year old white kid is reported in a park playing with a gun, the police wouldn't drive up to him and kill him before ascertaining whether or not it was a toy first. If a white guy is laying down with his arms up saying that his charge is holding a toy (white and small), they wouldn't shoot at him 3 times. If a white guy is sitting at a table watching a fashion show 200 yards from a Klan protest, they wouldn't be questioned as to why they are there.

As of July 10, 2016, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black

The NRA must be slacking

If a white guy is sitting at a table watching a fashion show 200 yards from a Klan protest, they wouldn't be questioned as to why they are there.

I don't know if that's true. If he looked like this



I bet they would

Don't conflate police shootings with police shootings of unarmed or not-in-a-commission-of-a-crime shooting (like Spacer's examples).

I don't easily frustrate. But, it is increasingly difficult to hear people excuse every use of police force and dismiss the complaints of people who say things are not justified.

Also, Tamir Rice did not look like that...and it still shouldn't matter. Under no circumstance was the kid reasonably breaking a law when he was killed by that officer.

Jr Spacer probably should have dressed different, or pulled his pants up higher, or answered the police questions better, or maybe softened his facially expression, or maybe not sat menacingly, or maybe something else...

Bklyn wrote:Don't conflate police shootings with police shootings of unarmed or not-in-a-commission-of-a-crime shooting (like Spacer's examples).

I don't easily frustrate. But, it is increasingly difficult to hear people excuse every use of police force and dismiss the complaints of people who say things are not justified.

Also, Tamir Rice did not look like that...and it still shouldn't matter. Under no circumstance was the kid reasonably breaking a law when he was killed by that officer.

so you're prepared to tell me that 732 police shootings of whites were all of armed suspects or in the commission of a crime shootings?

Tamir Rice was a tragedy. Is Tamir Rice indicative of police shootings in this country? I don't think so.

Tamir Rice wasn't swept under the table. His family received a $6m settlement from Cleveland.

In the county where I live a black person gets challenged for being in a white neighborhood, either by a deputy or a rent-a-cop or a neighborhood watcher. Maybe it's not that different where you live; if you're not timid, ask somebody you know who's black. Chances are they have stories to tell regarding profiling. It's still very much a cultural thing, even in 2016.

But now it's the video age, and here comes a slew of high-profile cases where black men appear to die under very fishy circumstances while the LE types responsible gets little or no punishment.

So sure, the spark that ignited BLM are those sensationalized cases...but every black protestor out there has there own story about themselves or a relative being in similar situations as those who ended up dead. It would appear to be more personal for them..imo.

I don't know, eCat. I do know of one shooting in Utah where the kid was white and unarmed. So, it happens and it's fucked up. One thing I surely would not do is say that the dead white kid in Utah LOOKED like he was justified in being shot based on a description of his height and weight.

bluetick wrote:In the county where I live a black person gets challenged for being in a white neighborhood, either by a deputy or a rent-a-cop or a neighborhood watcher. Maybe it's not that different where you live; if you're not timid, ask somebody you know who's black. Chances are they have stories to tell regarding profiling. It's still very much a cultural thing, even in 2016.

Hell, even if you're timid...scan these boards the last 3 months and 100% of the black people here have stories of police contact while doing much of nothing.

bluetick wrote:In the county where I live a black person gets challenged for being in a white neighborhood, either by a deputy or a rent-a-cop or a neighborhood watcher. Maybe it's not that different where you live; if you're not timid, ask somebody you know who's black. Chances are they have stories to tell regarding profiling. It's still very much a cultural thing, even in 2016.

But now it's the video age, and here comes a slew of high-profile cases where black men appear to die under very fishy circumstances while the LE types responsible gets little or no punishment.

So sure, the spark that ignited BLM are those sensationalized cases...but every black protestor out there has there own story about themselves or a relative being in similar situations as those who ended up dead. It would appear to be more personal for them..imo.

I wonder how many of those sensationalized cases involved cops shooting blacks in white neighborhoods?

eCat wrote: Tamir Rice was a tragedy. Is Tamir Rice indicative of police shootings in this country? I don't think so.

Then choose John Crawford III. Then choose Jordan Davis (which, in fairness, was not done by police...so maybe don't choose him). Then choose Levar Jones. Then choose Walter Scott. Then choose Jonahtan Ferrell. It happens often enough to be viewed as a problem.

eCat wrote:

bluetick wrote:In the county where I live a black person gets challenged for being in a white neighborhood, either by a deputy or a rent-a-cop or a neighborhood watcher. Maybe it's not that different where you live; if you're not timid, ask somebody you know who's black. Chances are they have stories to tell regarding profiling. It's still very much a cultural thing, even in 2016.

But now it's the video age, and here comes a slew of high-profile cases where black men appear to die under very fishy circumstances while the LE types responsible gets little or no punishment.

So sure, the spark that ignited BLM are those sensationalized cases...but every black protestor out there has there own story about themselves or a relative being in similar situations as those who ended up dead. It would appear to be more personal for them..imo.

I wonder how many of those sensationalized cases involved cops shooting blacks in white neighborhoods?

What constitutes a white neighborhood?

Bklyn wrote:Don't conflate police shootings with police shootings of unarmed or not-in-a-commission-of-a-crime shooting (like Spacer's examples).

I don't easily frustrate. But, it is increasingly difficult to hear people excuse every use of police force and dismiss the complaints of people who say things are not justified.

Also, Tamir Rice did not look like that...and it still shouldn't matter. Under no circumstance was the kid reasonably breaking a law when he was killed by that officer.

Jr Spacer probably should have dressed different, or pulled his pants up higher, or answered the police questions better, or maybe softened his facially expression, or maybe not sat menacingly, or maybe something else...

Tamir Rice and other like incidents, rightfully, draw anger from the African-American community, and, no doubt, policing across this country needs to be reformed. However, trumpeting the likes of Michael Brown and Freddie Gray where it was later revealed police weren't in the wrong are a travesty and tarnishes BLM's credibility to the public. There are plenty of incidents to bolster BLM's cause.

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote:

bluetick wrote:In the county where I live a black person gets challenged for being in a white neighborhood, either by a deputy or a rent-a-cop or a neighborhood watcher. Maybe it's not that different where you live; if you're not timid, ask somebody you know who's black. Chances are they have stories to tell regarding profiling. It's still very much a cultural thing, even in 2016.

But now it's the video age, and here comes a slew of high-profile cases where black men appear to die under very fishy circumstances while the LE types responsible gets little or no punishment.

So sure, the spark that ignited BLM are those sensationalized cases...but every black protestor out there has there own story about themselves or a relative being in similar situations as those who ended up dead. It would appear to be more personal for them..imo.

I wonder how many of those sensationalized cases involved cops shooting blacks in white neighborhoods?

What constitutes a white neighborhood?

I think that's a great question for Bluetick