The Goat Pen

Bklyn wrote:
So, personally, you're giving me non sequitirs with that link. How many BLM protests have gone on without any incident with police, property or the broader community? Is it just time that is used to show a correlation to BLM activity and (apparently subsequent) "police targeting?" You post a link to a story relating to the Laquan MacDonald shooting and then speak about cops not wanting to protect the black citizenry??? The irony in that is fucking fantastic.
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i think the irony is fantastic too.

the movement results in an increase in black lives being lost

or are only the black lives that matter the ones that are lost from police abuse?

I'm viewing the question as rhetorical.

I just don't view BLM as the problem, at this point.

Bklyn wrote:I'm viewing the question as rhetorical.

many people are not

interesting study by the national bureau of economic research on whether BLM has a valid premise or not

Bklyn wrote:They just stopped policing

Milwaukee seems to be a pretty good snapshot of what happens when they do police in the era of the BLM movement

Bklyn wrote:NYPD tried the same thing after Stop and Frisk was deemed unConstitutional.

and to me that is the crux of the BLM movement. I think it has less to do with the lives lost and more to do with profiling and police focus on African Americans disproportionate to whites in every day encounters.

Fwiw, this is what BLM says about itself:

What Does #BlackLivesMatter Mean?

When we say Black Lives Matter, we are broadening the conversation around state violence to include all of the ways in which Black people are intentionally left powerless at the hands of the state. We are talking about the ways in which Black lives are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Now, do I think their message is pure and perfect? Nope. Do I think the message that they have laid out has been co-opted in some instances? Yep. Do I think that their lack of a centralized leadership/champion hurts them (much like it did Occupy)? Yep. Do I think they are FAR more involved in peaceful, yet disruptive, demonstrations than violent? Yep. Do I think they are a terrorist organization? No. Do I think that the view of them as such is well aligned with how historical opposition looked at other civil rights organizations? Yep.

I am not a tried and true supporter of BLM because I think they have severe flaws. However, I am not going to say they are a terrorist org or responsible for where we are with minority policing today, anymoreso than I think it was BLM's problem that Spacer's son was targeted by Portland PD. I think it's an easy complaint and a (sometimes willful) misdirection from the real issue.

I would be interested to know what Ferguson, Milwaukee, and Baltimore city council have as the party majority.

Hint....not Republican.....

"I am not a tried and true supporter of BLM because I think they have severe flaws. However, I am not going to say they are a terrorist org or responsible for where we are with minority policing today. I don't think it was BLM's problem that Spacer's son was targeted. I think it's an easy complaint and a pivot from the real issue."

Well you can call a duck a dog when you see one, doesn't change the fact that is still a duck.

I don't remember the exact chant of something something pigs fry like bacon. 50 years ago, I would agree that BLM probably wouldn't have the impact they are accused of. However, now with social media, irresponsible television news outlets, and just the overall stupidity and no personal responsibility, yeah, BLM has a little responsibility when shit happens.

BLM is a joke to me and I have no racist bone in my body. Except for Hedge types. They creap me out. Corn sellers can't be trusted. To me BLM is just another hate cops group. If BLM is concerned so much with black deaths, why aren't they going after the real problem, Black on Black crime. They get all crazed because a cop (either race) shot an armed black dude but when a black dude shoots a bunch of other black dudes outside a nightclub they do nothing. Black on Black crime is far worse than cop shooting, from both sides. How about we address that?

This is not a party issue anymoreso than New York's overly Democratic political structure contributes to the low crime rate.

I think making it a political party issue is also an easy point. Where we are and how we got here transcends political party.

^^^

Jungle Rat wrote:BLM is a joke to me and I have no racist bone in my body. Except for Hedge types. They creap me out. Corn sellers can't be trusted. To me BLM is just another hate cops group. If BLM is concerned so much with black deaths, why aren't they going after the real problem, Black on Black crime. They get all crazed because a cop (either race) shot an armed black dude but when a black dude shoots a bunch of other black dudes outside a nightclub they do nothing. Black on Black crime is far worse than cop shooting, from both sides. How about we address that?

jesse and al set that precedent

Hell no it's not a party issue. It's an I live in America issue. BLM needs to regroup. They are going about it all wrong.

crashcourse wrote:

Jungle Rat wrote:BLM is a joke to me and I have no racist bone in my body. Except for Hedge types. They creap me out. Corn sellers can't be trusted. To me BLM is just another hate cops group. If BLM is concerned so much with black deaths, why aren't they going after the real problem, Black on Black crime. They get all crazed because a cop (either race) shot an armed black dude but when a black dude shoots a bunch of other black dudes outside a nightclub they do nothing. Black on Black crime is far worse than cop shooting, from both sides. How about we address that?

jesse and al set that precedent

We let them.

Black on black crime is already being addressed - by law enforcement. You hold criminals accountable by arresting and prosecuting them. How do you hold overzealous cops accountable? I think that's what BLM is trying to do. I would think good cops would be very interested in weeding out the bad seeds from their ranks. I know I am. When you empower a group of people to walk around with guns and kick in people's doors, etc., they must be held to a higher standard. Criminals have no standards. Big difference b/w those two groups...

Jungle Rat wrote:BLM is a joke to me and I have no racist bone in my body. Except for Hedge types. They creap me out. Corn sellers can't be trusted. To me BLM is just another hate cops griup. If BLM so much, why aren't they going after the real problem, Black on Black crime. They get all crazed because a cop (either race) shot an armed black dude but when a black dude shoots a bunch of other black dudes outside a nightclub they do nothing. Black on Black crime is far worse than cop shooting, from both sides. How about we address that?

Holy shit something we agree on.

Because there are no headlines in that. There are no donations to victims of hate crimes. It is easier to blame rich people for their problems. Never mind they won't do anything inside their own communities to fix things. They don't want to work with police to put criminals in jail. They don't want to work with police to show them where the drug houses are. Who cares how many times the corner store gets robbed or some innocent child is shot because of random gun fire. The rich folk did all of this to our neighborhood.

Jungle Rat wrote:BLM is a joke to me and I have no racist bone in my body. Except for Hedge types. They creap me out. Corn sellers can't be trusted. To me BLM is just another hate cops group. If BLM is concerned so much with black deaths, why aren't they going after the real problem, Black on Black crime. They get all crazed because a cop (either race) shot an armed black dude but when a black dude shoots a bunch of other black dudes outside a nightclub they do nothing. Black on Black crime is far worse than cop shooting, from both sides. How about we address that?

An organization can decide to tackle what it decides to tackle. There are groups that spend plenty of time speaking on crime in the black community. Actually, one of the people who spends a lot of time focusing on that is Al Sharpton, but plenty on this board only "knows" what he does to "race bait" and "reverse discriminate" against people. BLM has pointed their focus on state sponsored racism. It's a big enough issue to tackle alone, let alone adding black community crime.

Personally, from a historical perspective, it feels more akin (to me) like Booker T Washington and WEB DuBois. I'm not going to bore you all with that history lesson because it would be a waste of my time (I doubt the value to you would meet the value it has to me). In essence, Washington was more "black people need to make themselves better" and DuBois was "the state needs to provide the protections that it promised us all."

HA! It took no time for Al and Jesse to be name-checked. Consistency has its merits.

The community's reluctance to deal with police is a deep and complicated issue. Part of it is police culture and the overhang of the 80s drug wars. Part of it is police corruption and the "Blue Wall of Silence" (the original "snitches get stitches" policy). The distrust is real and warranted...on both sides, most times.

Bklyn wrote:

Jungle Rat wrote:BLM is a joke to me and I have no racist bone in my body. Except for Hedge types. They creap me out. Corn sellers can't be trusted. To me BLM is just another hate cops group. If BLM is concerned so much with black deaths, why aren't they going after the real problem, Black on Black crime. They get all crazed because a cop (either race) shot an armed black dude but when a black dude shoots a bunch of other black dudes outside a nightclub they do nothing. Black on Black crime is far worse than cop shooting, from both sides. How about we address that?

An organization can decide to tackle what it decides to tackle. There are groups that spend plenty of time speaking on crime in the black community. Actually, one of the people who spends a lot of time focusing on that is Al Sharpton, but plenty on this board only "knows" what he does to "race bait" and "reverse discriminate" against people. BLM has pointed their focus on state sponsored racism. It's a big enough issue to tackle alone, let alone adding black community crime.

Personally, from a historical perspective, it feels more akin (to me) like Booker T Washington and WEB DuBois. I'm not going to bore you all with that history lesson because it would be a waste of my time (I doubt the value to you would meet the value it has to me). In essence, Washington was more "black people need to make themselves better" and DuBois was "the state needs to provide the protections that it promised us all."

I know the BTW story. I studied it in high school. Great man with great vision. Just watched a thing on Lebron (ESPN) and what he's doing for Akron kids is probably the best story I've heard all year. My ex is from there so I probably connect more. Nobody on this forum has a right to be racist as does anyone outside this fucked up online community. The skinheads who want America back to white only sorta forget the Indians were here first. What does the statue say, Bring me your....

America is a melting pot of every race, color, belief that needs to figure out how to live and function together. I don't give a fuck about your race, region, beliefs etc. I just want to know I can trust you with my nude pics.

Bklyn wrote:The community's reluctance to deal with police is a deep and complicated issue. Part of it is police culture and the overhang of the 80s drug wars. Part of it is police corruption and the "Blue Wall of Silence" (the original "snitches get stitches" policy). The distrust is real and warranted...on both sides, most times.

True. 100%. Yet I would think that the honest percentage would help out to make things better

Jungle Rat wrote:...I would think that the honest percentage would help out to make things better

At this point right now, that's almost all we have to lay our hat on.

I know. And it sucks.