The Goat Pen

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Anyone excited about voting for Newt (probably no one here) got a blow today...basically his entire campaign team gave him the finger and resigned

It's not a real campaign anyway, not when he would rather take his wife to Greece instead of listening to his volunteers. The last thing any Presidential wannabe should be doing at this point, is vacationing.

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Drugs are death, mmmmmmkay? So long as drugs exist, we will be at war, and war we must, mmmmkay?

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Drugs are death, mmmmmmkay? So long as drugs exist, we will be at war, and war we must, mmmmkay?

Do you want to bury your son or daughter after they had a heart attack by snorting cocaine? I don't think so. How about Heroin? Death. Meth? Death. Crack? Quick death. All are addictive and all are death. Mkay?

No these things remain illegal. I wish we could make cigarettes illegal but there are too many political forces preventing that from happening.

innocentbystander wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Drugs are death, mmmmmmkay? So long as drugs exist, we will be at war, and war we must, mmmmkay?

Do you want to bury your son or daughter after they had a heart attack by snorting cocaine? I don't think so. How about Heroin? Death. Meth? Death. Crack? Quick death. All are addictive and all are death. Mkay?

No these things remain illegal. I wish we could make cigarettes illegal but there are too many political forces preventing that from happening.

So outlaw cigarettes, all addictive drugs...add to that your earlier argument for forced sterilization of those on the "govt dole"...and LET FREEDOM RING!

innocentbystander wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Drugs are death, mmmmmmkay? So long as drugs exist, we will be at war, and war we must, mmmmkay?

Do you want to bury your son or daughter after they had a heart attack by snorting cocaine? I don't think so. How about Heroin? Death. Meth? Death. Crack? Quick death. All are addictive and all are death. Mkay?

No these things remain illegal. I wish we could make cigarettes illegal but there are too many political forces preventing that from happening.

Some "less government" conservative you are...

Red Bird wrote:I totally agree with ending the drug war. It's a complete loser, we spend billions every year on interdiction and police, prosecution, our prisons are full of people connected in some way to the war on drugs, and still many children have better access to coke than to measles vaccinations.

If we legalize these drugs, we can tax them and use the money to pay for health care for the poor, or building new schools.

But even if we agreed to do all that August suggests, the effect on the recession is likely to be small and even those effects would be slow coming.

I think we need something bigger and faster.

Anyone else have an idea?

Yes. INCREASE the war on drugs. Level of drug use is directly related to many types of crime.

If you don't want to do whats needed to stop the drugs as well as possible, make it legal for me to shoot and kill the son of a bitch who tries to rob me or my family of 20.00 so they can by the shit. I really care not which.

innocentbystander wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Anyone excited about voting for Newt (probably no one here) got a blow today...basically his entire campaign team gave him the finger and resigned

It's not a real campaign anyway, not when he would rather take his wife to Greece instead of listening to his volunteers. The last thing any Presidential wannabe should be doing at this point, is vacationing.

Yeah, leave that to the sitting POTUS.

I definitely support the idea of decriminalizing pot. Harder drugs should still be illegal, IMO. But I just have known too many people over the years who smoke weed and seem to be pretty functional -- have a good job, etc. I'm sure it's not without some long-term effects, but the same can definitely be said for alcohol and cigarettes. I personally think outlawing cigarettes makes more sense than outlawing pot.

Even if we don't tax pot, we'll still save hundreds of millions a year on enforcement and punishment.

IB, you know why drugs are "death"? because when you buy drugs from a dealer on the street you have no idea what you are actually getting. you dose may be too weak, just right or too strong. it may not even be what you're buying. you may be buying cocaine and actually get meth heroin or a combo of both. heroin doesnt kill you overdosing on heroin is what kills you. and street dealers will sell to anybody including your 11 year old daughter. legalize it, sell it at coffee shops for the green stuff and pharmacies for the stronger stuff, and at least the client will at least know what they're getting and there will be some control over distribution.

I must have missed the post DSL made about Weiner's wiener.

I'm in favor of legalizing and heavily taxing pot. It would bring in a ton of revenue and save enforcement costs. If the government takes over the pot business, there will be a lot less of it anyway.

My biggest concern is that, while pot is not a hard core drug, it is a gateway drug to the more serious stuff.

Red Bird wrote:

Please explain, in detail, how you suppose that we're going to get out of this mess? I'd like to see what your prescription is for ending the great recession because cutting government spending will only put more people out of work and cutting taxes is only going to put us deeper into debt.

Since the question has been ignored, I'll broaden the question to any one of you conservative/Libertarian/Tea party types.

Its been stated numerous times. Biz has no friggin idea what its going to cost to employee a person from year to year due to potential expiring tax cuts, new gargantuan laws such as Opramacare and a cornucopia of regulations that have yet to be written. Throw in the debt issue and energy costs and wtf would someone hire at all unless they just absolutely had to?

Govt keeps bitching that biz is sitting on mtns of cash, so the best thing govt can do is add certainty to the cost of doing business. Make cuts permanent, repeal or rule unconstitutional Oprama care, limit regulations to those that actually make sense. Then biz will begin hiring.

Bullshit like giving people money to spend they they didn't earn won't change a damn thing. And you cling to the "cutting taxes reduces revenue" mantra that has been shown to be wrong by Oprama's own website.

Govt should be like refs on a football field (not the SEC refs). You have reasonable rules and regs in place and you ref the game. You don't decide the winners or losers of the game, but you make sure that everyone plays by the rules.

Simple stuff. Occam's razor etc.

Business exists to make a profit and not tp provide someone a job. If biz doesn't make a profit it goes out of biz. Govt never has to deal with that.

Sunshine is a gateway drug to the harder stuff.

Water is a gateway drug to the harder stuff.

"Sunshine... on my shoulder... makes me happy..."

I agree with ending the War on Drugs post haste. I don't see how you can legalize "small amounts" cocaine? Perhaps you mean small doses? But yea, we should surrender, we've already lost the war anyway. Taxing pot like cigarettes sounds like a good deal too. I think gambling is already legal in many places. Prostitution? Why not. I wonder what the tax should be?

Agree. War on drugs is a joke. When pretty much any 5th grader can tell you where to get pot...you have lost. Tax it, regulate it, take the money out of it and the violence goes the fuck away as does the assault on the 4th ammendment.

But cutting unemployment in a situation like this would be a disaster.

Wrong. The better and longer the benefits the longer people delay taking a job when one is available.

So you want a fifty -year-old laid off computer programer to take a job picking apples? (I wonder what sort of work you do?)

Construction, landscaping?

Why not married ones? How bout they simply agree not to have more kids? If they do, cut them off.

Because you know that wouldn't happen. As soon as a kid is involved no way the public will support cutting aide to the kid. Its pretty simple...if you accept welfare/food stamps/WIC a female gets a deproprevera shot or norplant while on welfare. Once off no shot or norplant removed. Oh and welfare recipients shouldn't vote either.

I like it, but how? I mean we'd all like to make America energy independent, but such a program might cost hundreds of billions or even trillions; you willing to raise taxes to pay for that?

Manhattan style project where EVERYTHING is on the table: Nat gas, shale, solar, wind, wave, coal, efficiency, oil, nuclear,... EVERYTHING. Hell 20 billion a year overseen by national labs (ORNL, Livermore, Brookhaven, etc) to ideas that have merit and that the inventors of the ideas OWN THIER idea is the best way to do it. You have to bridge the gap from here to there though. It will be a beautiful day when the mid-east is irrelevant to US energy needs.

Good idea, wish I had suggested this.

Heh...A weapon unused is a useless weapon.

This is interesting. So you gon'a give them New Jersey? Marin County? Nevada? Maybe they'll take Alaska?

Disgree. Make the mid-east energy irrelevant and then we don't give a damn what Israel does.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Anyone excited about voting for Newt (probably no one here) got a blow today...basically his entire campaign team gave him the finger and resigned

Newt has to much baggage, but he is an articulate intelligent guy who would have done a good job. Would have done real well in debates.

innocentbystander wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:Drugs are death, mmmmmmkay? So long as drugs exist, we will be at war, and war we must, mmmmkay?

Do you want to bury your son or daughter after they had a heart attack by snorting cocaine? I don't think so. How about Heroin? Death. Meth? Death. Crack? Quick death. All are addictive and all are death. Mkay?

No these things remain illegal. I wish we could make cigarettes illegal but there are too many political forces preventing that from happening.

If someone wants to do something in theor own house that harms only themselves...have at it.

No law against somebody drinking 3 cases of beer a day. The war is LOST ans was from the start. Enormous cost in $$$ and violence and NOTHING to show for it.

And if someone wants to smoke tobacco who the fuck are we to tell them no? Or for that matter to tell a biz owner that he can't allow smoking when you don't have to go there if you don't want to?

How about Heroin?death.

you can live a long time on hard drugs. Ray Charles and Miles Davis both a 30 year heroin addictions. David Crosby free based cocaine for 15 years as did Richard Pryor. only God know show many doctors are running around high on morphine every day. the common denominator here is being able to get good reliable product. IB you wake up one morning and realize you kid is an addict. you try and try and he wont stop. do you want him getting product at a pharmacy or from a street corner thug?

do you want him getting product at a pharmacy or from a street corner thug?

Neither. You leave the street corner thug's disembodied head impaled on a parking meter at the corner where he sold your kid the drugs.