The Goat Pen

"2nd year player in his first playoff experience, guarding the best player in the league, hangs 22 and 10 on the defending champs...that's a pretty fair offensive line from a mediocre pick who hangs his hat on defense"

I didn't say he hasn't had some good games, but his overall stats over his short NBA career are Hansbrowesque. I guess I should ask Stu: Would you rather have Elton Brand or MKG as a #2 pick?

Pronounced Poy-Thress.

And give MKG another year or two before judging his career. Wall just started coming into his own this year, his fourth.

I wouldn't even MKG was even mediocre these past 2 years.

Wall was much better than this in his first year.

OTOH, the Bobcats are winning so he gets credit for that.

hedge wrote:"One of them married a girl from our graduating class."

Who?

Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiii-cey Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnn

"And give MKG another year or two before judging his career."

Well, you can only judge someone's career on the actual career they've had. If he take off in the future, obviously the judgement will have to be modified, but at this point, based on his stats, MKG has been well below what you would want in a #2 pick. Not a bust by any means, but I would guess well into the bottom half of #2 picks...

Since 1999, the No. 2 picks have been:

1999 - Steve Francis (Elton Brand was No. 1 pick)
2000 - Stromile Swift
2001 - Tyson Chandler
2002 - Jay Williams
2003 - Darko Milicic
2004 - Emeka Okafor
2005 - Marvin Williams
2006 - Lamarcus Aldridge
2007 - Kevin Durant
2008 - Michael Beasley
2009 - Hasheem Thabeet
2010 - Evan Turner
2011 - Derrick Williams
2012 - MKG
2013 - Victor Oladipo

Now, I agree that MKG has not produced what I would want out of a No. 2 pick. But I'll still bet that the end of his career you'd put him in the top 5 of the above listed players

Yeah, but go back a little further and you have the likes of Jason Kidd, Mourning, Payton, Kenny Anderson, Antonio McDyess, Camby, Van Horn, Rick Smits, and Armen Gilliam. And Len Bias was also the #2 pick. Even the lower end of that list were far better than MKG has shown so far. Again, MKG could end up being better, but usually a player that averages 8pts/5.5 boards after his first 2 seasons doesn't just all of a sudden jump up to being a 20/10 guy. I'm sure it has happened, but I can't think of anybody right off hand...

From your list, you have to throw out Jason Williams, who knows what he might've done, but I suspect he would've been in the top 5 of that list. But who knows? So throw him out. Also throw out the last 3 or 4 guys, no way to tell at this point (although I'd say Turner has been at least as good as MKG if not better). Obviously Darko was a huge bust, but even Stromile Swift has career averages pretty much identical to MKG so far. Chandler is rebound specialist, hard to compare, but he is certainly highly valued judging by his salary. And Francis, Okafor, Durant and Aldridge all are/were obviously far, far better than what MKG has shown so far. Beasley hasn't set the league on fire, but he's been better than MKG. I guess I would put MKG in the Marvin Williams category (maybe not quite even there yet). Solid but far from spectacular...

if you read between the lines on Cal's statements, the twins will declare for the draft...probably today. At least that is how I perceive it.

When he starts off talking about 50 years from now fans won't care whether they stayed another year or not, then I'd say he's bracing the fans for bad news.

now I'm hearing Yahoo is saying they're coming back. Announcement at 1:00 Est - we'll know either way.

Crazy team next year if they come back - and most scarey to college basketball is we won't start any freshmen

I told you they would come back. They have played together forever & they arent ready to be split apart by the draft yet. They enjoy playing together too much.

holy shit

Surprised to say the least.. not a bad birthday present.

Not really a surprise to me after I read a story on them in the Enquirer last weekend.

Here's the story I read that made me believe they would stay.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/ ... k/7951441/

lost in all this is that the NCAA announced much greater leeway for the power conferences in terms of financial aid, academic standards, player benefits, etc

the scandal at UNC has played a part in this. If the NCAA punishes UNC then they are admitting that colleges owe players something of value for their contributions as an athlete - which makes them employees.

The NCAA is circling the wagons before they get pushed aside by the power conferences.

eCat wrote:now I'm hearing Yahoo is saying they're coming back. Announcement at 1:00 Est - we'll know either way.

Crazy team next year if they come back - and most scarey to college basketball is we won't start any freshmen

And the freshmen aren't going to be happy about that.

eCat wrote:lost in all this is that the NCAA announced much greater leeway for the power conferences in terms of financial aid, academic standards, player benefits, etc

the scandal at UNC has played a part in this. If the NCAA punishes UNC then they are admitting that colleges owe players something of value for their contributions as an athlete - which makes them employees.

What NCAA rule did UNC break again?

Saint wrote:

eCat wrote:lost in all this is that the NCAA announced much greater leeway for the power conferences in terms of financial aid, academic standards, player benefits, etc

the scandal at UNC has played a part in this. If the NCAA punishes UNC then they are admitting that colleges owe players something of value for their contributions as an athlete - which makes them employees.

What NCAA rule did UNC break again?

we can start with academic fraud and go from there

Heh. I think the incoming freshman are saying OK, it might take two years (which it should). Where do I want to be for the next two years. The NBA will be going to age 20 soon enough although I think 21 works better.