The Goat Pen

Brian Riedl works for the Heritage Foundation and has an MA in Public affairs; as such, he is a very poor economist

The idea that government spending creates jobs makes sense only if you never ask where the government got the money. It didn’t fall from the sky. The only way Congress can inject spending into the economy is by first taxing or borrowing it out of the economy. No new demand is created; it’s a zero-sum transfer of existing demand.

- Riedl

The stimulus is meant to create economic actively that otherwise would not occur. If the economy is operating at full capacity then a stimulus will not work for the reasons Riedl states, but our economy isn't anywhere near full capacity, businesses are not hiring workers and people are not spending money. We need to do something to change behavior and creating demand for products is the best tool we have.

With current interest rates dirt low, government borrowing will not effect businesses ability to expand when demand reaches the level that causes them to act. There is no borrowing from one part of the economy to stimulate another; therefor, it is not a zero sum gain. And Brian has proved that he knows nothing more about economics than the ordinary poster here.

Red Bird wrote:

Please explain, in detail, how you suppose that we're going to get out of this mess? I'd like to see what your prescription is for ending the great recession because cutting government spending will only put more people out of work and cutting taxes is only going to put us deeper into debt.

Since the question has been ignored, I'll broaden the question to any one of you conservative/Libertarian/Tea party types.

LMAO. You have repeatedly ignored and dismissed the points of others and you are obviously the kind of person who is intent on believing what you want to believe. Don't be surprised if people begin to ignore you. No hard feelings. You just can't have a conversation with someone for whom facts aren't relevant.

In other news...

U.S. resumes airstrikes against AQ in Yemen

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/06/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1

I actually support Obama in this, but I am curious where all the libs/dems are who were knocking George W. Bush for sending our military into Iraq and Afghanistan? Hmmm...

Create demand, put more money in folks pockets....simply raise the minimum wage to $25/hr.

Done and done.

Toemeesleather wrote:Create demand, put more money in folks pockets....simply raise the minimum wage to $25/hr.

Done and done.

Hey, why not? It's free money, right? LOL.

If all you're going to do is offer political platitudes and conservative talking points, damn right I'm going to dismiss them. I've repeatedly asked for specific proposals to deal with the current situation and in return I get speeches about business confidence and reprints of economic lessons from phony economists.

I said when this started that you Tea Party types have no ideas of how to fix our broken economy and nothing posted since has demonstrated otherwise.

So I ask you all again, what is your plan for getting us out of this mess?

Hacksaw wrote:In other news...

U.S. resumes airstrikes against AQ in Yemen

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/06/ ... ?hpt=hp_t1

I actually support Obama in this, but I am curious where all the libs/dems are who were knocking George W. Bush for sending our military into Iraq and Afghanistan? Hmmm...

I don't support Obama on this. Don't support what he's doing in Libya either. I don't see any good coming from any of this.

What recession?? I thought it ended last year, per Ron Sims, HUD secretary.

As the summer heats up, it is becoming clear that it could quite possibly be the most active season yet when it comes to recovering our economy. There are Recovery Act-funded projects breaking ground across the country that are creating quality jobs for Americans and economic growth for businesses, large and small.

This summer is sure to be a Summer of Economic Recovery.

More taking points, but no plan to do anything different.

'I don't support Obama on this. Don't support what he's doing in Libya either. I don't see any good coming from any of this."

So I trust you won't be voting for him again? And okay, so you disagree. Maybe a lot of others who disagreed with Bush also disagree with this. But where's the outrage? Where is the wild indignation? Where are the calls for impeachment -- or worse?

It's the old double-standard at work again.

Calls for impeachment? Why? Has he been unfaithful to his wife?

Libs would LOVE to raise the MW to $25/hr.

That'll show the rich!

What about the rich libs?

Please explain, in detail, how you suppose that we're going to get out of this mess? I'd like to see what your prescription is for ending the great recession because cutting government spending will only put more people out of work and cutting taxes is only going to put us deeper into debt.

legalize pot, shrums, small amounts of cocaine and tax them. stop this ridiculous war on drugs which cost billions and generate billions in tax revenue. legalize gambling and prostitution for the same reasons. each american citizen gets a maximum 6 months of unemployment benefit at one time and max two years for life. unmarried persons on welfare must accept reversable sterilization while on the government dole. this will reduce government expenses and encourage citizes to accept lower paying jobs that are currently being done by illegal immigrants. begin initiative to make America energy independent within 10 years. then start bring our troops home from the mid east. tell the jews that if they want a homeland we'll be glad to work out a spot here they can have, if they turn us down they can get bent.

Hooray Obama! Dead arabs is a good thing. As long as they didn't get dead killing Americans.

legalize pot, shrums, small amounts of cocaine and tax them.

I agree with ending the War on Drugs post haste. I don't see how you can legalize "small amounts" cocaine? Perhaps you mean small doses? But yea, we should surrender, we've already lost the war anyway. Taxing pot like cigarettes sounds like a good deal too. I think gambling is already legal in many places. Prostitution? Why not. I wonder what the tax should be?

But cutting unemployment in a situation like this would be a disaster.

this will reduce government expenses and encourage citizes to accept lower paying jobs that are currently being done by illegal immigrants.

So you want a fifty -year-old laid off computer programer to take a job picking apples? (I wonder what sort of work you do?)

Unmarried persons on welfare must accept reversable sterilization while on the government dole.

Why not married ones? How bout they simply agree not to have more kids? If they do, cut them off.

begin initiative to make America energy independent within 10 years.

I like it, but how? I mean we'd all like to make America energy independent, but such a program might cost hundreds of billions or even trillions; you willing to raise taxes to pay for that?

then start bring our troops home from the mid east.

Good idea, wish I had suggested this.

tell the jews that if they want a homeland we'll be glad to work out a spot here they can have,

This is interesting. So you gon'a give them New Jersey? Marin County? Nevada? Maybe they'll take Alaska?

Some good ideas, some I'm not as thrilled about. What I realy like is you have some notion of changing the direction we're going in and I agree we need to do that in a bunch of areas.

Thanks for being brave and bold and taking the Challenge.

I totally agree with ending the drug war. It's a complete loser, we spend billions every year on interdiction and police, prosecution, our prisons are full of people connected in some way to the war on drugs, and still many children have better access to coke than to measles vaccinations.

If we legalize these drugs, we can tax them and use the money to pay for health care for the poor, or building new schools.

But even if we agreed to do all that August suggests, the effect on the recession is likely to be small and even those effects would be slow coming.

I think we need something bigger and faster.

Anyone else have an idea?

Red Bird wrote:

legalize pot, shrums, small amounts of cocaine and tax them.

I agree with ending the War on Drugs post haste. I don't see how you can legalize "small amounts" cocaine? Perhaps you mean small doses? But yea, we should surrender, we've already lost the war anyway. Taxing pot like cigarettes sounds like a good deal too. I think gambling is already legal in many places. Prostitution? Why not. I wonder what the tax should be?

But cutting unemployment in a situation like this would be a disaster.

The only reason why pot, cocaine, shrums, etc are illegal, is because we are unable to make cigarettes or alcohol illegal. We tried prohibition and it didn't work. It only created organized crime. But you aren't going to find that much good in alcohol and nothing good about cigarettes. Alcohol and tobacco is death.

Parents do not want their children easy access to drugs (at ANY age, really.) Drugs = death. No parent wants to bury their children, ever. And that is the route drugs take you. Maybe pot wont kill you the way cigarettes do, but they kill your brain and leave you in a fog totally unable to do professional work.

No, we don't stop the war on drugs. Drugs are death.

Red Bird wrote:

this will reduce government expenses and encourage citizes to accept lower paying jobs that are currently being done by illegal immigrants.

So you want a fifty -year-old laid off computer programer to take a job picking apples? (I wonder what sort of work you do?)

Illegal immigrants must go home. I don't care who picks our fruit so long as it is harvested legally. If the cost of the fruit is so cheap that it doesn't warrant the labor cost used to harvest it (not enough "profit" in an apple to justify picking it), then I say the fruit should not be picked. Let it rot on the trees. Don't break an immigration law just for cheap food.

Red Bird wrote:

Unmarried persons on welfare must accept reversable sterilization while on the government dole.

Why not married ones? How bout they simply agree not to have more kids? If they do, cut them off.

Over at Worldcrossing Nadeshiko said that she wanted all children to be sterilized at birth and only those young people with financial means to raise and support children, only they may have the sterilization reversed. BREEDING to her was a privilege, not a right.

Red Bird wrote:

begin initiative to make America energy independent within 10 years.

I like it, but how? I mean we'd all like to make America energy independent, but such a program might cost hundreds of billions or even trillions; you willing to raise taxes to pay for that?

Billions, not trillions. Build 200 new nuclear power plants, dump all the waste in Yucca mountain, and tell Harry Reid to go fuck himself. Nevada took all that federal money to tunnel out the mountain and create jobs in Nevada, they must compelled to take all the waste.

Red Bird wrote:

then start bring our troops home from the mid east.

Good idea, wish I had suggested this.

As soon as ISLAM is gone forever, I am okay with this. As long as there is ISLAM then I want 500,000 US troops garrisoned in the Middle East, round the clock, rooting out Fundamentalism. You all forget who we are fighting and why. (Need I go get an image of the WTC smoldering towers?)

Red Bird wrote:

tell the jews that if they want a homeland we'll be glad to work out a spot here they can have,

This is interesting. So you gon'a give them New Jersey? Marin County? Nevada? Maybe they'll take Alaska?

They already have New Jersey and also Long Island. Well, they "share" Jersey and LI with the Roman Catholics the way they share Israel with the Muslims. But Fundamentalist Catholics don't feel compelled to blow themselves up for whatever reason. In fact, Fundamentalist Catholics are pretty harmless.

I say cut Israel off on the aid. Tell AIPAC that we are done, no more WWII "guilt" money for Judaism. They can take care of themselves anyway, just cut off aid to EVERY middle east nation so it would be fair.

Anyone excited about voting for Newt (probably no one here) got a blow today...basically his entire campaign team gave him the finger and resigned