The Goat Pen

Actually a better read and covers the WWII period up to the present.

Is Employer-Based Health Insurance Worth Saving? - Economics/NYTimes.com
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... ving/?_r=0

The answer is no, btw. We're the only industrialized country that does it that way and the outcome has been predictable. Our medical costs are so much higher than anybody else yet our results lag behind others who pay half or less as much.

Whatever state you believe health care to be in.....ok....so-so....wrecked.....do you really want to make the argument that government (repub or dem prez) can fix it??? Can you say post office? Certainly a non-partisan entity to begin with, it is now a clusterfuck than nobody can, or is willing to fix. Can you say welfare? Name one thing where cost(s) have gone down, performance has improved as a result of government intervention....Dept. of Energy???? gimme a break! The reason I keep pointing to yer boy, Obammer is mainly due to his own deflecting/prevarication, shit, come clean and tell people the truth.

The U.S. Postal Service could become “a significant burden to the taxpayer” if it does not get needed flexibility to change its business operations, Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe told Congress Wednesday.


Appearing before a congressional hearing for the first time since the Postal Service had to back away from a plan to reduce delivery days from six to five, Donahoe told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that ”the Postal Service is currently operating with a broken business model.”

“We are losing $25 million dollars every day and we are on an unsustainable path,” he added.



This is sooooo "old news" no one bats an eye anymore. Business as usual for government.

" Name one thing where cost(s) have gone down, performance has improved as a result of government intervention.."

Ending slavery?

Toemeesleather wrote:The U.S. Postal Service could become “a significant burden to the taxpayer” if it does not get needed flexibility to change its business operations, Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe told Congress Wednesday.


Appearing before a congressional hearing for the first time since the Postal Service had to back away from a plan to reduce delivery days from six to five, Donahoe told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that ”the Postal Service is currently operating with a broken business model.”

“We are losing $25 million dollars every day and we are on an unsustainable path,” he added.



This is sooooo "old news" no one bats an eye anymore. Business as usual for government.

the entire postal service (as it is constituted today) is meant to be a "jobs program" for retired military veterans, more than it is to be a government agency to serve the people. That's the problem. Jobs in the USPS are very well "formed", very well "paid", and as a result, the people who work them (retired military veterans) are resistant to change because they know how to do these jobs and they "fear" any innovation will quickly end their "jobs." And if a 48 year old postal worker loses his job, where they fuck does he go to replace his $26/hour job with his high school diploma? This creates built in (and ever increasing) inefficencies that the government will never work to overcome so long as the taxpayers can prop them up and make them "whole."

Such as it is with pretty much any government industry that is not the actual military.

There is so much that the USPS can do to innovate and provide mail service so much cheaper but it would wipe out 80% of the jobs. George Will had an ingenuous idea. Consider for a moment that Wal-Marts are pretty much covering the country. There is right now a Wal-mart for every 40,000 citizens (give or take.) Okay so that is about 13,000 households (give or take.) You could convert two aisles in every one of the 8000 Walmarts in the country into a row of 13,000 post office boxes to serve those 40,000 people and all domestic mail would then cost a fraction of what it is today (you mail hub-and-spoke via Arkansas from one Walmart to another.) Forget 45 cents a stamp, try 2 cents a stamp. Of course, this level of efficency would instantly throw 90% of the USPS into an unemployment line (so it can not happen.)

The USPS is a jobs program. That is what it is, jobs for military veterans or affirmative action jobs for people in a certain "protected class" who score just high enough on that bullshit civil-service exam. It is meant to create a meaningful livelihood, NOT meant to compete with those who can do it so much better and cheaper (Fed Ex? UPS?)

We can take this example of the USPS and apply it to anything the government does (as almost everything is a jobs program of well "formed" jobs) and you can see that there will always be built in inefficencies slowing things down and making it far too expensive (things that would not happen in the thrive or die private sector.) This is what you get with health care the moment the government gets involved. And dont mention Medicare as some great government achievement with its $60,000,000,000 in annual FRAUD.

hedge wrote:" Name one thing where cost(s) have gone down, performance has improved as a result of government intervention.."

Ending slavery?

In the short run you'd have to say no, right? I mean it crippled the cotton industry at the beginning, but probably instigated technology that started the industrial revolution.

bluetick wrote:toe, look at your post. It's all about you-know-who in the White House. In your current state of mind, you could care less about the sorry state of our U.S. healthcare system. Seriously - opramacare hasn't gotten off the ground yet...our problems started even before he was born in Hawaii (allegedly).

At least take a peek at this. A quick read on how the fuck-up began three generations ago. It makes no mention of your boy Ted Cruz, I promise.

Accidents of History Created U.S. Health System
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =114045132

Why does tick hate American ingenuity?

sardis wrote:

bluetick wrote:toe, look at your post. It's all about you-know-who in the White House. In your current state of mind, you could care less about the sorry state of our U.S. healthcare system. Seriously - opramacare hasn't gotten off the ground yet...our problems started even before he was born in Hawaii (allegedly).

At least take a peek at this. A quick read on how the fuck-up began three generations ago. It makes no mention of your boy Ted Cruz, I promise.

Accidents of History Created U.S. Health System
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =114045132

Why does tick hate American ingenuity?

Because socialism protects the interest of the "well formed job" being worked by the most incompetent.

Ingenuity financially rewards those who (by a fluke of birth) are born with the most competence and cognitive ability, people who are generally always going to vote for less and les government since they don't need government.

To a blood sucking blue tick, the ingenious are the enemy because their ingenuity is a financial threat to anything socialized.

"Such as it is with pretty much any government industry that is not the actual military."

Why do you exclude the military? That's the biggest boondoggle of them all...

Most of the postal workers I know never were in the military.

hedge wrote:"Such as it is with pretty much any government industry that is not the actual military."

Why do you exclude the military? That's the biggest boondoggle of them all...

Not for pay it isn't.

It is a boondoggle for those in "procurement" (33% of all military spending) but not for actual pay for people working or "retired" (67% of military spending.) Could you live on what an E-1 makes? Could you live on what an O-1 makes? Or even an O-3 for that matter?

They can afford those very low salaries (a fraction of what is paid to employees in every other government entity) because the majority of your living expenses are covered (you get housing for free in the dorms, chow for free in the mess hall) but even that gets tiresome and (for those married with families) you can't really use those freebies anymore.

[youtube]oktYMyaZMB8[/youtube]



Shifting money around, young pay for the old.....only in nihilist government, according to Sebelius, is this creating a market.

The postal service comparison works except for the fact that we aren't talking about government doctors, government medical facilities, and government taking over the role of private insurance companies.

Conservatives came up with the idea of the mandate and now there is one. Ten basic and sorely needed coverages are ordained for most policies. The rollout of healthcare.org has been a clusterfuck but it'll get fixed.

the sun'll come out tooo morrow
bet yer bottom dollar that tomorrow
there'll be sun!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapotheca ... o-elderly/

from forbes magazine the article fox refeers to

" Ten basic and sorely needed coverages are ordained for most policies."

I hope it covers getting your ass kicked in an internet sass fight, b/c most people in here are in sore need of that after I get thru with them...

hedge wrote:" Ten basic and sorely needed coverages are ordained for most policies."

I hope it covers getting your ass kicked in an internet sass fight, b/c most people in here are in sore need of that after I get thru with them...

Hmm. Says here Mental health and substance use disorder services coverage, including behavioral health treatment (including counseling and pschotherapy).

this could be a godsend to someone in particular...just sayin'

I just came across this yesterday. Very refreshing...


Dear Drugs: THANK YOU!! for a real good time..

Fact:

Without illegal drugs, my life, up till & including tonight, would have sucked toast. Way bogus. I mean bad; a total waste of time.

It would have all been so stupid!!

Shit yes. I have problems. My life has been hard. But when I’ve needed them drugs have been there for me. When I had nowhere else to turn it was drugs that saved the day.

Even when my life sucks directly because of drugs it still beats the sad crap out of how bad life would suck with no drugs at all. I will go so far as to say I feel certain I would’ve killed myself long ago if the drugs weren’t on my side.

Why? Because drugs gave me something to live for. A reason to stay awake for another day & night when the sun comes up each morning. Yeah & you know what?

Drugs give me Hope!

Mostly they’ve helped me celebrate life with people I love. I am going to die one day. When I do I’ll look back over this 1 & 3/4 decades-long drug binge and congratulate myself for a job smashingly well done. Yeppers kiddoz! My first hit of weed was the smartest choice I ever made. Until I finally got to check out some of that L$D!!

And when you go without food — due to smoldering abject poverty — for a day or few you will thank Adolph Hitler, Sweet Mother Earth and maybe even Jesus — that evil cocksucker — for all the amphetamines.

So thanks again drugs. Just sorry you had to wear off so soon. Ya’ll come back now y’hear!

Ok. Off to sleep.

NOT!!

bluetick wrote:Conservatives came up with the idea of the mandate and now there is one.

Mandate? Maybe.

Mandate with minimums to make sure the old and the poor are subsidized (potentially to zero cost from premiums?) No.

A conservative mandate would be like what Romneycare was, catastropic plans that are just enough to prevent the medical bankruptcies. The ACA is just another ponzi-scheme wealth grab from young people.

If you can't see the difference, you are an idiot.

bluetick wrote:I hope it's Christie on the GOP ticket ; I've always admired that guy.

Me too. He reminds me of Tony Soprano.

bluetick wrote:Paying Til it Hurts: An Examination of the High Cost of Medical Care in the U.S.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/healt ... .html?_r=0

US colonoscopy $3500 ..... Austria $300
US hip replacement $110,000 ..... Belgium $13,000
US Lipitor (30 count) $125..... Spain $5
US MRI $1080..... France $280

Right tick. That like saying the facility charge when I had my knee scoped was 10,000 in 2009. Right and the amount the negotiated for it was 1600. You aren't comparing apples to apples at all.

Lipitor is now generic. It $4 at Walmart. Hell several places are offering it FREE including Meijer which is WalMart of the North.

I'm sure I found the same article you did that quoted as low as 11,000 to as high as 125k. Nice cherry pick of data. No way in hell anybody is actually paying 125k for a new hip.

My MRI was $400 and that wasn't my oop cost.

Is that colonoscopy in Austria in a bar room? With or without anesthesia? How much of those prices are subsidized by taxes in those countries? What is the wait time? I've shown years and probably two hosting sites ago that Canada and Britain have very long wait times.

You love to tout Canada, but from a 2009 article:

"Canada has one of the lowest rates of MRI scanning machines per-capita in the developed world, with six MRI scanners per million people, compared to 40.1 in Japan, 14.4 in Switzerland and 26.6 in the United States. Pittsburgh alone has more MRI machines than all of Canada."

Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than the entire country of Canada?!?!

"Patients wait longest for orthopaedic surgery (39.6 weeks) and wait least for medical oncology treatment (4.1 weeks)."

Almost 40 weeks for ortho man. 9 months to wait. Bottom line in Canada and Britian if it is a life threatening issue such hear attack or stroke its much close to US in wait times etc. If its ortho, diagnostic scanning, etc you will be waiting a long time compared to the US.

Quit comparing MSRP with the actual cost people pay.