The Goat Pen

I think Brand only being an all-star twice is a greater indication of his journeyman status, however elevated it might be in that category, than not playing on successful teams.

Looking at that list of ranking the #1 picks, the top 12 or so are no brainer alltime stars, but even there you have Patrick Ewing who never won a championship and only got to the finals once, IIRC. But then you get to #14 and there's Chris Webber, followed by the likes of Brad Daugherty, Mychal Thompson and Glen Robinson, all of them ahead of Brand (yeah, Thompson was on championship teams with the Lakers late in his career, but he was a mere bit player). Granted this is only one guy's list, but it's probably pretty close to what most people think who know enough about it. Anyway, the point is, if one of the main criterion for being a successful #1 pick is that you lead you team to a championship (much less multiple championships), then most of them fall woefully short. FWIW, I don't see Randle as being the type of player that is going to do that, and it's hard for me to imagine any GM thinking that, either. But I think he'll have a good career, and certainly a profitable one..

What is the definition of journeyman?

The judge searched out the circle for disputants. But what says the priest? he said.

Tobin looked up. The priest does not say.

The priest does not say, said the judge. Nihil dicit. But the priest has said. For the priest has put by the robes of his craft and taken up the tools of that higher calling which all men honor. The priest also would be no godserver but a god himself.

Tobin shook his head. You've a blasphemous tongue, Holden. And in truth I was never a priest but only a novitiate to the order.

Journeyman priest or apprentice priest, said the judge. Men of god and men of war have strange affinities.

I'll not secondsay you in your notions, said Tobin. Dont ask it.

Ah Priest, said the judge. What could I ask of you that you've not already given?

I think Randle could be an all-star more than twice

All-star is a feckin fan vote anyway, it's a popularity contest, not a measure of quality. Although in fairness, nobody likes a loser...

Deborah Crowder ..... could bring investigators to unc.

In the nearly three years since news of the scandal broke, Crowder has yet to say anything publicly about her role in the classes. But now she is emerging as a key witness in a new investigation set up by the university and the UNC system of the biggest academic scandal in the university’s history.

What she says could have ramifications for hundreds of wins and numerous championships by UNC’s athletic teams. If she says she helped create the classes so athletes struggling academically could stay eligible to play sports, her actions could trigger serious NCAA violations. If she can show she paid no attention to who sought to get into the classes, and simply helped anyone who showed up at her door, the NCAA might stay away.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/04/15/ ... rylink=cpy

I think Randle is going to have to develop a much greater variety of facing the basket moves before he ever get near all start status. I think Elton Brand is a pretty good comparison.

I am likely overvaluing Brand's NBA career based on what i remember of him at Dook. My recollection was that he was a freaking monster for them. I didn't literally fear him on a personal level like I did Chris Washburn, but I hated his ass face. It seemed like he, and then shortly afterwards, Jason Williams, were about as good a two players at their position in college as I'd ever seen. Those were dark days as a Carolina fan. Dean had just retired, we had choked an almost certain NC in 1998, and then the Brand/Williams era started at Dook. Luckily, they only managed one NC in those years (thank you, UConne), but I remember thinking those guys could do pretty much anything they wanted on the court. I was glad to see them go...

FWIW, I felt the same way about Mashburn at UK. He was a very different player from Brand (although there was some overlap), but just as effective. I thought he was going to have a great NBA career as well. And he had a pretty good one, actually pretty comparable to Brand, at least stats-wise, and he probably would've earned about the same as Brand if he hadn't started his career 6 or 7 years earlier than Brand, but just that short amount of time amounted to about $100 million more for Brand than for Mashburn. Still, I'm not crying for Mashburn, he earned $75 million in his career...

hedge wrote:I am likely overvaluing Brand's NBA career based on what i remember of him at Dook. My recollection was that he was a freaking monster for them. I didn't literally fear him on a personal level like I did Chris Washburn, but I hated his ass face. It seemed like he, and then shortly afterwards, Jason Williams, were about as good a two players at their position in college as I'd ever seen. Those were dark days as a Carolina fan. Dean had just retired, we had choked an almost certain NC in 1998, and then the Brand/Williams era started at Dook. Luckily, they only managed one NC in those years (thank you, UConne), but I remember thinking those guys could do pretty much anything they wanted on the court. I was glad to see them go...

FWIW, I felt the same way about Mashburn at UK. He was a very different player from Brand (although there was some overlap), but just as effective. I thought he was going to have a great NBA career as well. And he had a pretty good one, actually pretty comparable to Brand, at least stats-wise, and he probably would've earned about the same as Brand if he hadn't started his career 6 or 7 years earlier than Brand, but just that short amount of time amounted to about $100 million more for Brand than for Mashburn. Still, I'm not crying for Mashburn, he earned $75 million in his career...

Mashburn also has a pretty good business head on his shoulders. Owns a few toyota dealerships and various things. His income is growing, not depleting. That said, I can't say I remember him coming back to anything UK in recent years. I think he's in tight with Pitino, although he did establish a scholarship fund at UK with his first NBA check.

From IC report about the team banquet/awards ceremony:

"Ronnie Sykes, who is retiring this week from the Smith Center staff, received the Bill Guthridge Award. It is presented to person behind the scenes who demonstrates great loyalty to the program."

RAAAAAAAWWWWWWW-NEEEEEEEHHHHH SYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYKKESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is real journalism. Great read...

North Carolina academic scandal grossly exaggerated

http://host.madison.com/daily-cardinal/ ... 963f4.html

did UNC have fake classes that didn't meet and funnel athletes into them? absolutely, but I'm not here to talk about that, I'm here to discredit Mary Willingham, a researcher who is claiming students she couldn't work with personally had trouble reading at a 5th grade level. Our findings show they can actually read at a 9th grade level so UNC is vindicated.

blah , blah, blah

UNC is still shooting the messenger

hedge wrote:From IC report about the team banquet/awards ceremony:

It is presented to person behind the scenes who demonstrates great loyalty to the program."

and lays the groundwork for derailing the program

UNC is in some deep doo doo.

You'll pay for that, fatboy...

hedge wrote:You'll pay for that, fatboy...

only time I worry is when my wife says that to me

scout comments collected about each of UK's players - not conclusive by any means



*Julius Randle ? Kentucky PF

These guys believe that the league will ultimately draft the
ferocious-rebounding-Randle anywhere from 4th to 9th in June's draft should he
decide to declare. I found it interesting however, that ONLY 3 of these 14
NBA-people say that they themselves would draft Randle in that 4-9 range. A
majority of these guys like JR in the 10-14 range. What they're saying about
JR:

"While he's a terrific rebounder, his defensive issues are frightening.
Worst defensive big-man in the draft."

"How many times can a guy catch the ball at the top of the key, drive
into 3-defenders and give it to the other team?"

"I question his feel for the game and basketball IQ."

"Seems like a good kid, but I saw them (UK) play 16-times this season and
I still don't know how "coachable" he is."

"Will have to improve his face-up game (jump-shot), because in our league
guys will just play behind, wait for him to jump, and then play volleyball when
he releases it."

"I wonder if he has a nerves-issue. He cramped in Kentucky's biggest
games."

*James Young ? Kentucky SF

Most of these NBA guys believe that the league will select the Wildcats'
smooth-shooting lefty in the 14-30 range. They say about Young:

"Made big shots when they (UK) needed them this season. Looked like
Calipari trusted him most after time-outs and when the team needed a basket."

"Not ready to play with our guys. Soft. Poor defensive player and
mechanical issues with his shot would mean a lot of D-League for quite awhile."

"A terrible passer. Only one current starting 2-guard in the NBA (Eric
Gordon) had more turnovers than assists in his final season of college ball."

"No right hand and no handle yet. Doesn't finish at the rim, pass or
defend. In time, maybe. Now, no."

"His shooting and 6'6 size will intrigue teams enough to take him in the
20-ish range."

"Improved as the season wore-on. Has some "gamer" in him. Shot under 33%
from 3-pt line until March, but made big shots and plays down the stretch for your
'Cats ? finishing the year at 35%. Like him some."

"This league is not friendly to guys who can't pass the basketball or
defend. And he can't do either right now. But my biggest knock is that I just
don't think he's tough enough. Another year on campus would likely do him
wonders."


*Dakari Johnson ? Kentucky C

The NBA guys say Big Dakari would likely be drafted by the league in the
25-40 range. About DJ they're saying:

"The big-fella has some upside. Great hands and excellent feel for the
game."

"Too raw to play anytime soon. Teams would put him in a million pick and
rolls (defensively)."

"Very good instincts and a big-man who likes to put his big-ass on the
box and play like a big-man. A throw-back."

"Even if he returns to school, I don't believe his athleticism will allow
him to be a lottery-pick down the road."

"Improved a bunch from October to April. Still has a ways to go. Seems
like a conscientious young man who is coachable. I'm a fan."

Has NBDL written all over him should he come out. A project. Has some
skills to work with however, and at 7'0 ? with great hands ? someone will
snatch him up in the late first."


*Aaron Harrison ? Kentucky SG

The NBA guys I spoke with believe that, should he enter, this big-shot
taking AND making Wildcat would ultimately be drafted by the league in the
25-50 range. None of these guys indicated that they personally would draft
"Double A-Ron" in the first round of the '14 draft. About Aaron, they're
saying:

"The better of the twins. Better defensively and a better athlete. Still,
not yet a good defender and just an okay handler. Should stay in school."

"Gutsy player who plays hard. Much more consistent than his brother.
Decent finisher with his left hand around the basket. Can't beat anyone off of
the dribble. Can't keep people in front (of him)."

"Not a NBA athlete. You must have something on which to hang your hat.
The D-League is loaded with 6'6 guys who don't possess that one particular
thing."

"Not explosive enough. Can't finish over the top at the rim. Like Harris
(Gary), he has no in-between game. It's either a "3″ or all the way to the rim.
But unlike Harris Aaron doesn't have those big hands, "juice" or bounce off of
the floor."

"Just another guy at this stage. Which sounds like more fun ? playing at
Kentucky another year ? or playing in the D-League next year … you tell me?"

"You must separate the novelty of these two kids (Aaron and brother Andrew)
being twins. If they weren't brothers, one played at Texas Tech and the other
played at UTEP ? and both just had the years they had (at Kentucky) … would
anyone be discussing these guys leaving college early to enter the NBA draft?"


*Andrew Harrison ? Kentucky PG

These NBA folks feel that, should he elect to come out early, "Andy"
would ultimately be selected in the 30-60 range on draft day. About Andrew,
they say:

"Not a point-guard in the NBA. Not now anyway. Can't blow-by anyone. Most
college point-guards blew-by him this season. Couldn't contain the ball. Vital
at our level."

"Became more unselfish over the course of the year. Not surprisingly, the
more unselfish he became ? the better your Wildcats played. Still, not enough
"pop" in his body to compete nightly with NBA-players at this juncture."

"A tough kid who improved greatly as the season wore on. I question his
speed and athleticism. Won't bully guys at this level."


"D-League if he comes out now."

"Not sure how much better he can become. Physically, he and his brother
(Aaron) are both already very physically mature for their age. What you see now
may just be what you get down the road."

"As of today we have him ranked as the 13th-best point-guard in the
draft."

*Alex Poythress ? Kentucky PF

These NBA exec's and scouts believe that the freakish Wildcat athlete ,
should he decide to declare for early-entry, would ultimately fall in the 30-60
range on draft-day. About Alex, they say:

"A terrific raw athlete. No real game to speak of, however.

"A four (PF) stuck in a three's (SF) body."

"He fooled me. I thought he would become a 3/SF with ease at the college
level. Looks the part. But decision-making just does not come easy for him on
the basketball floor."

"Huge hands, long arms, great body and great athleticism. Can't shoot,
dribble or pass at this stage. Does something once every other game that makes
you think he has a chance. Those kinds of guys get you fired."

"D-League'er if he comes out now. Must develop either a post game, a
perimeter game ? or both. Right now, his athleticism is the only thing that
would get him on the floor in the NBA. What will keep him on the floor? Too
inconsistent."

Parker declares for the draft less than 24 hours after the Duke Banquet.

I really do believe that K had him talked into staying 3 weeks ago but the NBA periphery got to him.

My favorite remark was "Those kinds of guys get you fired"...