The Goat Pen

Boy that's real clever...

bluetick wrote:We thought we had normalized the Catholics too but Tim McVeigh still blew up a federal building. And he's still the U.S. homegrown terrorist record holder...168 dead.

Like I said, there's always going to be a few holdouts. But that's no reason to act like there's some epidemic of terrorism. I'd say there are several dozen causes of death that are far more likely than a terrorist attack, probably including getting struck by lightning. Now then, I'm just as pissed about it as anyone else, probably even more so b/c of my feelings about religion in general. But you have to keep things in perspective...

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote:

bluetick wrote:We thought we had normalized the Catholics too but Tim McVeigh still blew up a federal building. And he's still the U.S. homegrown terrorist record holder...168 dead.

and he didn't use a gun

Is this a gun-only forum? Damn.

EFZ.

With all due respect (and with a nod to our earlier discussion the past few days), some of you guys are like Saul, the My T Sharp resident hanger-on. No matter what, if we are close enough to talking about American violence and culture, gun rights shows up in all its glory.

[youtube]0LPddiQXD9c[/youtube]

So, yeah, fuck you Sauls!

The car comparisons never get old.

The car has to be registered and tagged, most places it has to be inspected for road-worthiness and emissions. The car owner has to be licensed and has to carry liability insurance. Car occupants have to wear restraints. Drivers have to obey the rules of the road. Cars entail official notices from the government and insurance carriers constantly. Taxes, fees, and insurance are stout.

Whereas I own 3 pistols, 4 shotguns and 2 bolt action rifles. Unregistered, unfettered, and therefore not much different than my golf clubs or fishing rods. I don't get any official notices about my firearms and never have. Taxes are zero, fees are zero, and the insurance is part of my homeowners policy.

Bklyn wrote:

With all due respect (and with a nod to our earlier discussion the past few days), some of you guys are like Saul, the My T Sharp resident hanger-on. No matter what, if we are close enough to talking about American violence and culture, gun rights shows up in all its glory.

Can't a body back the 2nd amendment and still make a case for "no fly-no buy?"

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote:and its a hate crime

smh

Call it whatever you like. Terrorist attack, "Isis-comes-to-America attack," muslims vs the U.S. Radical Islamic murder.

Nut-with-a gun applies to a broader demographic, for sure.

my gun references are just heading off the inevitable points attempting to be made every time there is a mass shooting

bluetick wrote:The car comparisons never get old.

The car has to be registered and tagged, most places it has to be inspected for road-worthiness and emissions. The car owner has to be licensed and has to carry liability insurance. Car occupants have to wear restraints. Drivers have to obey the rules of the road. Cars entail official notices from the government and insurance carriers constantly. Taxes, fees, and insurance are stout.

Whereas I own 3 pistols, 4 shotguns and 2 bolt action rifles. Unregistered, unfettered, and therefore not much different than my golf clubs or fishing rods. I don't get any official notices about my firearms and never have. Taxes are zero, fees are zero, and the insurance is part of my homeowners policy.

I'm not following the car analogy

all that registration , tagging, taxes and fees have nothing to do with the inherent dangers of irresponsible car ownership. On top of that , there would be an implied assumption that its necessary instead of being an example of government outreach into our rights as citiizens to own and operate an automobile.

where with a golf club you could easily bludgeon someone to death with one. Perhaps there is a case to be made for the unfettered access to golf clubs used a a weapon. Tiger Woods would support this.

Between Trump and this insane defense of guns, I've never wanted to live somewhere else more than right now. I really wish I had been able to pull off my transfer to the UK a couple years ago.

eCat wrote:I'm not following the car analogy

"Guns kill, cars kill - but nobody's trying to make it harder to own a car." All I I'm saying is - for me at least - gun ownership is a snap compared to owning cars.

bluetick wrote:

Bklyn wrote:

With all due respect (and with a nod to our earlier discussion the past few days), some of you guys are like Saul, the My T Sharp resident hanger-on. No matter what, if we are close enough to talking about American violence and culture, gun rights shows up in all its glory.

Can't a body back the 2nd amendment and still make a case for "no fly-no buy?"

absolutely, and we should have laws that say if you're mentally ill you can't buy a gun, we should have laws that say if you leave a gun out where a minor or someone unstable has access to it , and they shoot someone, its a felony on your part, and certainly if you're connected or suspected of terrorist associations you should at least be vetted before purchasing a gun.

but that's not the direction the media and gun control advocates want to go in - at least not exclusively

The focus on a specific type of gun sends chills down a pro-gun owner because they know it won't stop there - isolating a specific type of gun isn't going to stop mass shootings - and if mass shootings are the justification to invoke stricter gun control measures, they will just continue to push it after the next one and the one after that, and so on. Many of these mass shooters have an arsenal on them or in their car with hundreds if not thousands of rounds and a number of guns - all in an effort to maximize the killing.

Gun sales are surging in the wake of Sunday’s deadly mass shooting in Orlando, Fla. The tragedy is generating new debate over gun control reform and the right to bear arms.

Gun shops typically see a spike in customers after mass shootings. But this time, many are seeing shoppers they’ve never really seen before: More gays and lesbians.

George Horne, the owner of The Gun Room, Denver’s oldest firearms dealer, said Tuesday business is booming at his store.

"For this time of year I’d say its three to four times what we normally have," he said.

Background checks that once took minutes can now take hours. It's a sales surge similar to what happened after Sandy Hook and the Aurora theater shootings.

“We’re not surprised by it,” Horne said.

However, what’s different this time around is the clientele. Mike Smith, a firearms instructor in Colorado Springs, is one of many closely tracking the sudden surge in gays and lesbians buying weapons.

“I think right now because of what happened, people are looking for answers,” he said. “You walk into a gun shop and you expect to see people, frankly, who look like me. I think we forget we’re a country of all people, not just people who fit that predetermined mold.”

The Pink Pistols is a national gun club for gays and lesbians. It saw its membership soar from about 1,500 members on Saturday to 3,500 on Monday.

Bklyn wrote:Meh. I still look at our policies to focus my criticism. Rhetoric is only valuable to me in the absence of policy.

There are a lot of big words in those sentences and I am gonna take it at disrespect.

I'm all for guns. The more the better. I just laugh at the notion that people have that owning a gun will keep them safe from a govt, as armed as ours is, if it came to that. There are already more weapons restrictions in place than not. Try to buy a tank or anti-aircraft weapon or a bazooka or whatever they're called now. I just wish that 2nd Amendment argument would have its skull smashed into bits because if the US military decides to come get you, a fucking machine gun ain't going to buy you that much more time than a Daisy air rifle will.

I've never owned a gun of any kind nor ever lived anywhere where there was a gun in the house and I would bet that, precisely b/c of that, my chances of being killed with a gun are far less than somebody who does have a gun in their house...

For some reason, however, I do support the 2nd Amendment. Not sure why, but I suspect it's b/c of some Red Dawn scenario as well as my instinctive distrust of the government. But as Stu said, if in the absurdly unlikely event that "the government" somehow turned the armed forces against the citizenry, we'd be fucked. But I like the idea that it would be at least somewhat more difficult for them to conquer us, at least on the ground. But the reality is that neither that nor any other type of boots on the ground invasion of this country is ever going to happen...

hedge wrote:Well, it's taken a few centuries for the normal folks in this country to tamp down the christians, we're not going to normalize the muslims overnight (and will never normalize some of them, just as in the case with the christians). But with modern technology, it shouldn't take quite as long. We are on the right side of history, they are not...

That's what the Native Americans said when those first Christians came to their land. See what happened to them? We should learn from their mistake...

I prefer to believe the second amendment is why we still have the first

It certainly served it's purpose back in the day when we didn't even really have a professional military and muskets were about all anybody had anyway. I doubt there's much relationship b/w the two now, though...

I think it does

Somebody post the eCat with a machine gun picture, please...