The Goat Pen

I wonder what informed his views? I wonder how different they are from the views of any number of christian sects? As Christopher Hitchens said, religion poisons everything...

Riiight, show me an atheist society that's a picnic.

The perpetrator says he is ISIS, and ISIS claims the perpetrator, yet this is not related to ISIS...

Perpetrator knew ISIS would have thrown him off a tall building under different circumstances.

Yes, this was terrorism. Yes, he appears to have struggled with his sexuality. Yes, it appears his dad was no real help to him and his development.

With all this said...and with an eye to this string of bogeyman posts that I will not dare address specifically, for my own sanity and time:

1. Pulse Nightclub - Orlando, FL. At least 49 killed. Omar Mateen
2. Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA. 32 killed. Seng-Hui Cho
3. Sandy Hook, Newtown, CT. 26 killed. Adam Lanza
4. Luby's Cafeteria, Killeen, TX. 23 killed. George Hennard
5. McDonald's, San Ysidro, CA. 21 killed. James Oliver Huberty

The largest mass shootings in the US seem to be equal opportunity, as far as demographics. Our threats are many. Our liberty is fragile. Our collective sanity in the face of pressure will always be challenged.

Personally, even in the face of stress, I take a more measured view, try to avoid confirmation bias and focus on the sometimes opposing forces of protecting our liberty and our way of life.

sardis wrote:Riiight, show me an atheist society that's a picnic.

You're more or less living in one. Christian societies wouldn't tolerate 75% of the stuff that ours does. But you already know this...

What is a "Christian society" versus an "atheist society?"

Is "atheist" and "secular" the same?

1. Pulse Nightclub - Orlando, FL. At least 49 killed. Omar Mateen Gun free zone
2. Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA. 32 killed. Seng-Hui Cho Gun free zone
3. Sandy Hook, Newtown, CT. 26 killed. Adam Lanza Gun free zone
4. Luby's Cafeteria, Killeen, TX. 23 killed. George Hennard Gun free zone CC did not pass until 1996
5. McDonald's, San Ysidro, CA. 21 killed. James Oliver Huberty strict gun laws

My argument is not about gun control.

Interesting points, though.

eCat wrote:

Owlman wrote:I didn't see any evidence that she lied. What she did was represent her client to the best of her ability. Presented a theory of the case that was in support of her client, went after the credibility of the accuser (as she was supposed to do) and question the evidence against her client. That is not lying and it is representing your client. It's called being a lawyer. Not a big fan of tobacco companies, but I had to work for them at the law firm in a lawsuit. (We won that particular lawsuit).

As I tell my students, if you can't represent someone to the best of your abilities, even someone you dislike, choose another profession.

she is a horrible person

nothing more to say in defense of it.

Attack her for what she does wrong, not for what she does right.

you guys left off Fort Hood

Cletus wrote:

Bklyn wrote:Looks like Omar's jihad was initially with his own sexuality.

His religion did him no favors in coming to terms with what he was but it looks like the whole ISIS thing was a convenient cover.

It looks like self-loathing was a part of this whole thing. Can't live up to his own religious beliefs.

I've stayed at this resort:

Child Dragged Into Water by Alligator at Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando: Sheriff
http://ktla.com/2016/06/14/alligator-dr ... n-orlando/

pretty harsh

Sacramento Baptist pastor praises Orlando massacre

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/sacrame ... /243211965

Owlman wrote:

eCat wrote:

Owlman wrote:I didn't see any evidence that she lied. What she did was represent her client to the best of her ability. Presented a theory of the case that was in support of her client, went after the credibility of the accuser (as she was supposed to do) and question the evidence against her client. That is not lying and it is representing your client. It's called being a lawyer. Not a big fan of tobacco companies, but I had to work for them at the law firm in a lawsuit. (We won that particular lawsuit).

As I tell my students, if you can't represent someone to the best of your abilities, even someone you dislike, choose another profession.

she is a horrible person

nothing more to say in defense of it.

Attack her for what she does wrong, not for what she does right.

having bad character isn't doing right

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is a self hate act. He was scoping other targets like Disney, etc. The club was probably an easier place to smuggle in the weapons. I DO think he was gay, but you can't say that just because he's gay, he doesn't have a hatred for America like some other Arabs. We even hear that over in ISIS some of them use young boys for sexual gratification. Even though he is gay, he probably still related better to hetero muslim culture than gay American culture

Orlando gunman Omar Mateen’s two trips to Saudi Arabia, one of which was a pricey package that included four-star accommodations and fancy meals, were highly unusual and may have been cover for terror training, according to experts.

Muslim leaders said it was unusual for Mateen to have made two visits to Saudi Arabia in consecutive years -- the first when he was just 24.

"It's not cheap to do so and people that young usually don't go twice,” said Adnan Khan, former leader of the Council of Pakistan-American Affairs. “And especially considering he appeared not to have come from a staunchly religious background."

Two trips in as many years is a bright red flag, said Mauro.

“A single trip to Saudi Arabia could be attributed to the mandatory hajj or umrah, but the second trip and the visit to the UAE suggest that his stated reason for traveling was a cover,” he said. “Even if the trip included legitimate religious travel, it does not mean the activity was limited to that.”

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are they reaching ? who knows, its Fox News but to say this guy was self radicalized, considering his father and now this is a bit misleading.

He's an American terrorist who happens to be muslim. And gay.

Owlman wrote:you guys left off Fort Hood

I only did Top 5. I don't think the Fort Hood death total hit 20.

eCat wrote:Orlando gunman Omar Mateen’s two trips to Saudi Arabia, one of which was a pricey package that included four-star accommodations and fancy meals, were highly unusual and may have been cover for terror training, according to experts.

Muslim leaders said it was unusual for Mateen to have made two visits to Saudi Arabia in consecutive years -- the first when he was just 24.

"It's not cheap to do so and people that young usually don't go twice,” said Adnan Khan, former leader of the Council of Pakistan-American Affairs. “And especially considering he appeared not to have come from a staunchly religious background."

Two trips in as many years is a bright red flag, said Mauro.

“A single trip to Saudi Arabia could be attributed to the mandatory hajj or umrah, but the second trip and the visit to the UAE suggest that his stated reason for traveling was a cover,” he said. “Even if the trip included legitimate religious travel, it does not mean the activity was limited to that.”

--------------

are they reaching ? who knows, its Fox News but to say this guy was self radicalized, considering his father and now this is a bit misleading.

That is curious. I wouldn't call it a reach, because (granted everything there is factual) making 2 hajjs in such short time is almost unheard of.

On a related note, the whole deal with his wife is fascinating. She was extremely deferential, but I understand the mindset. I don't think she should be charged...although I expect some will want to do so.