The Goat Pen

maybe what bothers me most about this article is her saying this " He admitted to wanting to hook up with someone. I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me. Sometimes I think, if I hadn’t gone, then this never would’ve happened. But then I realized, it would have happened, just to somebody else. "

so the kid was intent on raping someone that night. By admitting he wanted to hook up with someone that night - probably the justification for a college mixer in the first place going back more than 100 years, that shows intent for rape? Every man at ladies night in America is then guilty of intent for rape.

so then we go to this

I thought there’s no way this is going to trial; there were witnesses, there was dirt in my body, he ran but was caught. He’s going to settle, formally apologize, and we will both move on.

as in a cash settlement?

how is it relevant that he never planned to take her to a dorm room? For whatever reason, the actual location keeps coming back into her dialog. That no girl would consent to getting fingered behind a dumpster. If only the rape was more sincere and he cared enough about me to take me do his dorm room ?

I'm sorry, I understand why you guys think this kid is a scumbag but six months, losing his scholarship and being a sex offender for the rest of his life is punishment enough in my eyes.

Maybe I'm just biased after watching the Duke Lacrosse 30 for 30.

Reading the article about the dude's conviction, it stated that the gal's blood alcohol was 3 times the legal limit (and the dude's was 2x). Jesus. I got a DUI in 1999 and I blew a .14, and I was drunk as shit. I think my body would shut down way before I got to .24 (plus I'm assuming I outweigh this chick by at least 75 lbs, unless she is more of the type that DS prefers).

Also, I am not disparaging either one of them for drinking heavily (college student and girl in her early 20's, why not?), but in her statement she said something to the effect of "I was just going to hang around the house that night but then decided what the heck, I'll go to this frat party with my sister." So she went from planning to just sit at home and watch TV to going out on the spur of the moment and drinking herself into complete oblivion. As she said, nothing criminal in that, but damn. She mentioned something about "if you want to talk to people about drinking, go to an AA meeting." She might consider going to one herself...

All that said, I'm sure the guy had every intention of raping her, assuming he could've gotten it up. He should be glad those dudes tackled him off of her when they did or he would be facing a lot more time, and deservedly so. There's no excuse for his actions, but I'd say 6 months in county lock-up and the rest of his life on the sexual offenders registry should keep him sober for quite awhile. Damn...

hedge wrote:Will you cover all my food and drink expenses next time I'm in the city?

I've posted here long enough to know that is a fool's errand with you. I will buy the first round. That's as far as I can go.

I'll be in Jersey City the next few days at the Grand Hyatt. Feel free to set up a tab for me at the bar. Thanks.

eCat wrote:maybe what bothers me most about this article is her saying this " He admitted to wanting to hook up with someone. I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me. Sometimes I think, if I hadn’t gone, then this never would’ve happened. But then I realized, it would have happened, just to somebody else. "

so the kid was intent on raping someone that night. By admitting he wanted to hook up with someone that night - probably the justification for a college mixer in the first place going back more than 100 years, that shows intent for rape? Every man at ladies night in America is then guilty of intent for rape.

I think what she is saying is that he is the type of guy who will take advantage of defenseless girl, who is unable to give consent, if she presented herself. I think she is saying that the rape wasn't about her, it was about opportunity. If the opportunity came up, somebody was getting raped. He is just wired that way...as far as how he views women, agency and what constitutes sexual violence.

eCat wrote:I thought there’s no way this is going to trial; there were witnesses, there was dirt in my body, he ran but was caught. He’s going to settle, formally apologize, and we will both move on.

as in a cash settlement?

No, as in settle without going to trial. This was not a civil case. The DA probably charged at one level and offered a plea at a lesser...but the rapist did not take the plea. I don't think cash is in play in any way here.

Cletus wrote:I'll be in Jersey City the next few days at the Grand Hyatt. Feel free to set up a tab for me at the bar. Thanks.

Nice place (from what I remember). Shitty town. Seriously, if you want to catch up for a "welcome to my city" cocktail, let me know.

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote:

Bklyn wrote:[still smh on the "we're all equal since around 1973" post you made in December 2014], but I'm going to sit it even larger on the economic reasons he got off so light).

I still believe in that statement

I know...regardless of a treasure trove of quantifiable data in terms of housing, wages, application of legal services, medical care and other identifiable metrics that shows it is not "largely equal" (even holding for other constants like education, income levels, geography, etc.).

I will say that your calcification on this line of thought taught me very valuable lessons about people. You're a good dude. If you ever come to NY (bc I don't see myself breezing through Cincy...and I don't mean that disparagingly; I just don't do business, have no family and no social interest there) I'm happily covering all food and drink expenses. You've shown me that people I actually respect the opinion of still can maintain the line, regardless of data. So, I don't try to move people from that thought. It has shown me that it's not a "good fight" to fight for all people. You've saved me from wasting energy on the topic...here and IRL. Seriously. It is something I always appreciate. My life is two dense for inefficient movement. I now believe that people who think that way, in this day and age, will stay that way...or move from it organically, not from something I can ever say or present.

look I can appreciate you're passionate about it

its a discussion you see as fruitless, I guess I do to. I"m a Gen X'er. its simply a different viewpoint toward obligation, entitlement and opportunity.

He was convicted of 3 felony counts, at least one of which requires a guilty verdict to consider his intent and state, which basically means a guilty verdict is a verdict saying that he was not too drunk to mitigate the crime. I just dont see giving this kid 6 months in jail vs 6 years in prison. Its basically a pat on the head saying this is a good kid who made a mistake we dont want to punish him. Id be livid if i was a friend or relative of the girl. Fuck this kid and his swim dreams, if the jury says hes a rapist he should get a rapist's sentence not some misdemeanor shoplifting style probationary jail bullshit.

EFZ

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote:maybe what bothers me most about this article is her saying this " He admitted to wanting to hook up with someone. I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me. Sometimes I think, if I hadn’t gone, then this never would’ve happened. But then I realized, it would have happened, just to somebody else. "

so the kid was intent on raping someone that night. By admitting he wanted to hook up with someone that night - probably the justification for a college mixer in the first place going back more than 100 years, that shows intent for rape? Every man at ladies night in America is then guilty of intent for rape.

I think what she is saying is that he is the type of guy who will take advantage of defenseless girl, who is unable to give consent, if she presented herself. I think she is saying that the rape wasn't about her, it was about opportunity. If the opportunity came up, somebody was getting raped. He is just wired that way...as far as how he views women, agency and what constitutes sexual violence.

yea I understand that, but not to put to fine a point on it, but opportunity is what the entire hook up premise is about.

your opportunity increases when a girl is at a frat party, drunk and rubbing your back. Your opportunity decreases when you stay at home and watch netflix.

so she sees the world as a guy who is a loaded gun just waiting for the girl to be vulnerable. Some girl was getting raped that night.

would a girl get raped that night if none of them were shitfaced drunk at a frat party giving a guy a back rub?

she thinks she knows the answer in definitive terms

eCat wrote: look I can appreciate you're passionate about it

its a discussion you see as fruitless, I guess I do to. I"m a Gen X'er. its simply a different viewpoint toward obligation, entitlement and opportunity.

Interesting. I don't know if I call it passionate. I live it every day, but I don't think it every day. I sit in a position, professionally, that allows me to see things very clearly from a data standpoint. I just am very familiar with the facts of the matter. Entitlement and opportunity are key factors in this. We just sit on different sides of where they play out. Meh, agree to disagree.

For the record, I'm Gen X, too. I just look like a Gen Y'er because I'm black and my weight hasn't changed in roughly 20 years. Black don't crack.

aTm wrote:He was convicted of 3 felony counts, at least one of which requires a guilty verdict to consider his intent and state, which basically means a guilty verdict is a verdict saying that he was not too drunk to mitigate the crime. I just dont see giving this kid 6 months in jail vs 6 years in prison. Its basically a pat on the head saying this is a good kid who made a mistake we dont want to punish him. Id be livid if i was a friend or relative of the girl. Fuck this kid and his swim dreams, if the jury says hes a rapist he should get a rapist's sentence not some misdemeanor shoplifting style probationary jail bullshit.

I'd be livid if I was the boyfriend getting drunk dialed from my girlfriend at a frat party giving back rubs to a guy on the swim team.

Bklyn wrote:

eCat wrote: look I can appreciate you're passionate about it

its a discussion you see as fruitless, I guess I do to. I"m a Gen X'er. its simply a different viewpoint toward obligation, entitlement and opportunity.

Interesting. I don't know if I call it passionate. I live it every day, but I don't think it every day. I sit in a position, professionally, that allows me to see things very clearly from a data standpoint. I just am very familiar with the facts of the matter. Entitlement and opportunity are key factors in this. We just sit on different sides of where they play out. Meh, agree to disagree.

For the record, I'm Gen X, too. I just look like a Gen Y'er because I'm black and my weight hasn't changed in roughly 20 years. Black don't crack.

I suspect you also blow me away in income, education and growth opportunity.

eCat wrote:

aTm wrote:He was convicted of 3 felony counts, at least one of which requires a guilty verdict to consider his intent and state, which basically means a guilty verdict is a verdict saying that he was not too drunk to mitigate the crime. I just dont see giving this kid 6 months in jail vs 6 years in prison. Its basically a pat on the head saying this is a good kid who made a mistake we dont want to punish him. Id be livid if i was a friend or relative of the girl. Fuck this kid and his swim dreams, if the jury says hes a rapist he should get a rapist's sentence not some misdemeanor shoplifting style probationary jail bullshit.

I'd be livid if I was the boyfriend getting drunk dialed from my girlfriend at a frat party giving back rubs to a guy on the swim team.

Completely fucking irrelevant. If some vacuum cleaner salesman came and found your door unlocked and stole your TV, the fact that you'd be pissed at your wife or your kid for leaving the door unlocked would have no bearing on your anger at the criminal. You wouldnt be talking about how he's just a down on his luck salesman, and really its our fault the door was unlocked, so let him off light, would you?

aTm wrote:

eCat wrote:

aTm wrote:He was convicted of 3 felony counts, at least one of which requires a guilty verdict to consider his intent and state, which basically means a guilty verdict is a verdict saying that he was not too drunk to mitigate the crime. I just dont see giving this kid 6 months in jail vs 6 years in prison. Its basically a pat on the head saying this is a good kid who made a mistake we dont want to punish him. Id be livid if i was a friend or relative of the girl. Fuck this kid and his swim dreams, if the jury says hes a rapist he should get a rapist's sentence not some misdemeanor shoplifting style probationary jail bullshit.

I'd be livid if I was the boyfriend getting drunk dialed from my girlfriend at a frat party giving back rubs to a guy on the swim team.

Completely fucking irrelevant. If some vacuum cleaner salesman came and found your door unlocked and stole your TV, the fact that you'd be pissed at your wife or your kid for leaving the door unlocked would have no bearing on your anger at the criminal. You wouldnt be talking about how he's just a down on his luck salesman, and really its our fault the door was unlocked, so let him, would you?

I don't know - was she so drunk she couldn't remember if she told him to take the TV or not?

Your wife? Probably.

so who was raped that was close to you ATM?

Nobody that I know about.

you seem a bit high strung about the whole thing

Eh, if I'm actually gonna show up here and have a discussion during a workday it might as well be lively, you limber-dick cocksucker.