The Goat Pen

I break ranks in two area

one, federal land - although I am no fan of the federal government owning vast amounts of land that just sits dormant, turning national parks over to the states as some have proposed would be a disaster

in the same light, I do support government regulation when it comes to protecting the consumer - in both safety and abuse . From anti-trust to EPA to OSHA. The most basic libertarian would cringe at the thought of someone saying that.

But I'm strongly, strongly against government funding where health care, education, housing and other areas of human needs are considered a right to the people. I know there is a balance to where everyone needs a basic education and no one should live or die in the streets. At the same time freedom and capitalism mandates that people make choices, both directly and indirectly for themselves, for their children, maybe even their grandchildren - and must live with the result of those choices.

The results of an extended and forgiving safety net leads to reckless and risky behavior as well as creates a dependency and acts as a de-motivator.

As a result everyone in society pays for it.

fwiw, my foreign policy has evolved. I do believe in declaring war - because declaring war takes an act of congress and thus requires accountability on the part of congress to send young men and women to their death, potentially wreck the worlds economy and forever alter the lives of Americans down the road. That said, once we do declare war, we unleash hell on whoever it is - to completely decimate them as members of the human race - I'm not even sure I'd go so far as to say without malice.

I wouldn't have said that 10 years ago

I'm against gov't intrusion as well — when the free market does its job properly. But that's been in need of a stern correcting for a long time now

"I know there is a balance to where everyone needs a basic education and no one should live or die in the streets."

This again reminds me of a Trump interview I saw on either Fox or CNN and he was saying that line (nobody will die in the streets) always got big applause. Then they ran a banner at the bottom of the screen that read "Trump: 'No one will die in the street'"...

Saint wrote:I'm against gov't intrusion as well — when the free market does its job properly. But that's been in need of a stern correcting for a long time now

Government and business are so intertwined and interdependent now that there isn't really a true free market anymore...

back to the med debate

I'll never feel sorry for the insurance companies--they have the biggest buildings and the most named sports arenas and events

the bigger issue to me what Rubio brought up--national debt is exploding and a lot of it is medicare driven. VA is a perfect example why government run mandated single payer so to speak don't work. obamacare is an example of what happens when the insurance companies seize control of Romney care to mold it into something that screws everybody but the insurance companies

until you get national healthcare to recognize theres a loot more people needing comfort care or hospice care instead of ER visits/unneseccary procedures/covering your ass type stuff and keeping the onclogists and nepnatal intensive care folk from pulling nails out of coffins we are going to drown in medical debt.

I'm all for certain things being paid for for those who cant afford it but somebody somewhere along the lines needs to be the judge and executioner and tell folks spending hundreds of thousands of dollars is not worth the extra couple of weeks you might gain from it. if you don't want us to pull grandpas plug you can pay for it yourself. if you want to take this 50,000 drug your paying for it. certain illegal aliens will not be eligible for all aspects of care that those of legal status will get.

I know its cruel but middle America is disappearing--those who work are tired of getting home with nothing in their pockets month after month to show for it--insurance/taxes/health is a big reason why

my problem with that is why is a life saving drug $50K

seriously, how is that justifiable? Some of these drugs are worth more than their weight in gold.

Everyone agrees and understands that economics play a decision - but I bet everyone changes their mind when a $50K drug gives you 3 more months with your kid or spouse.

life saving drugs for 50K are ok IE the hepatitis drug

life lengthening drugs that extend things 3 months I would have an issue with.

would you rather give your kids 50K from your life insurance or take that same 50 K and stick around for 3 more months and the wife and kiddies get nothing.

I know the wife and kids would want you around longer but what would you do?

crashcourse wrote:life saving drugs for 50K are ok IE the hepatitis drug

life lengthening drugs that extend things 3 months I would have an issue with.

would you rather give your kids 50K from your life insurance or take that same 50 K and stick around for 3 more months and the wife and kiddies get nothing.

I know the wife and kids would want you around longer but what would you do?

you're putting it back on me

but what if its your wife? You going to let $50K stand between you and being with her 3 more months?

My biggest issue is people are forced to make that decision - and then you find out they're selling the same drug in Malaysia for $1200

If I had no insurance and my kids were still in the house hell yeah I'll die and give them the money

but government insuance is pretty good and so is retirement--im probably worth more the the wife dead then alive so fuck that --im sticking around 3 more months

no I meant your wife had cancer

eCat wrote: But I'm strongly, strongly against government funding where health care, education, housing and other areas of human needs are considered a right to the people. I know there is a balance to where everyone needs a basic education and no one should live or die in the streets. At the same time freedom and capitalism mandates that people make choices, both directly and indirectly for themselves, for their children, maybe even their grandchildren - and must live with the result of those choices.

Govenment encroachment on public education was instrumental in creating the middle class the US created in the mid-twentieth century

eCat wrote: but what if its your wife? You going to let $50K stand between you and being with her 3 more months?

Yes

You need these three things and all three, not one or two of the three:

Raise Medicare age to 72
Medical malpractice reform
Different levels of care - poor, medium, rich and priced accordingly.

I will hand it to Rubio. He was the only candidate to have the guts to mention raising the retirement age for SS and medicare.

I have pretty much decided that I'm going to commit suicide if it ever comes down to the cancer or some shit like that. Not immediately when I find out about it, but when it gets down to where I can't get out of bed, etc, I'm going to drink a couple of bottles of expensive wine and then OD on morphine. That will be a very pleasant way to go...

And that's pretty much how you're going to go anyway (well, maybe not the wine), so you might as well do it yourself while you're still in your right mind and not just laying there unconscious waiting for it to happen "naturally"...

My brother is a life insurance salesman so I am grossly overinsured. Family members will be chomping at the bit to get me out of the way.

Not just family members...

I am with ECat on a lot of this.

What is wrong having an MRI done at a clinic where that is all they do but can do it at a fraction of the cost of a hospital? The doctors are still getting the same information and well they aren't using one from the soviet union of the 1960's? What is wrong with low cost option to treat sinus infections, ear infections, flu, sprained ankles / shoulders, etc... Why can't we let the hospitals handle big ticket items like surgery, true life /death emergency situations, and such?

I worked at a law office a few years ago. The insurance changed right after I was hired. The new insurance had to take into account that they had 2 people have major illness (heart attack and cancer), the firm on the average was older in age, and this wasn't a tiny firm by any means. At least 500 employees over Ohio and Indiana. So I was stuck paying 600 per month with a 5K deductible, a HSA that the company matched to a small percentage, and discounted rates within their network of doctors and providers. No copays. Just discounted prices. So going to see a doctor about a sinus infection would run us about 100 or so which counted towards our dedcutible but we still had to pay it out of the HSA which only grew by us putting tax deferred money into it. Whooope-do. So if I would have a major incident like my child breaking her arm, guarantee my 5K deductible is taken care of and anything over that is 100% paid. Guess who is on the hook for everything up to the 5K? What if my HSA doesn't have the funds to cover it?

Place I work now. 250 month for family. 20 copay doctor. 125 emergency room. My kid breaks her arm, 125 at the emergency room and done. Place I work now is global, actually based out of India, but has lot of locations all over the US.

So yeah, it can be done. It can be done right.

The simple solution is don't get sick or have an accident...

After Republicans, Democrats alike disavow Bobby Jindal, what will he do next?

http://theadvocate.com/multimedia/photo ... he-do-next

....."Louisiana threatened by financial disaster after Jindal inherited a $1 billion budget surplus eight years ago and left Gov. John Bel Edwards with a $3 billion deficit. Not with state legislators — Republicans and Democrats alike — openly deriding him, two months after he stepped down as governor." ...