Ostensibly Hoops

[aTm]

Here's a good example of refs letting them play the game and swallowing the whistle instead of calling a clear offensive foul on A&M even though UCLA is a national power.

[Owlman]

since when? Was a national power.

[crotch]

you speak as a quitter. Boeheim's a quitter?

Never said Boeheim's a quitter... just saying he knew the odd's were against him of winning that game after Dook had the ball and lead with 10 seconds to go in Cameron.

...still waiting for you to name a team

[Owlman]

The odds were against his team but not hopeless, so to make a point he takes away any chance for his team based on a calculation that this will convince the refs to give him the benefit of the doubt the next time he plays Duke at Cameron next year if it's a close game at the end of the game?

riiiiggght. I don't t think you really believe this. I hope you don't.

As for naming a team, when was the last time UNC lost a game at home leading by 2 with less than 10 seconds left and the ball? How about Kentucky? How about Syracuse? DO you realize how few games Syracuse has lost in total the last 5 years? How few at the Carrier Dome? How few of those they weren't trailing? Go and check. It ain't many and if their is once or twice it happened, it because the opposing team didn't quit which is what you are saying Boeheim did.

So your coaching philosophy is to quit when you are playing one of these top teams when you are trailing but within one basket. gimme a break. The answer will always be zero when you think you should be a quitter when your team has a chance.

[eCat]

Jan 31, 2009

as far as I can tell there have only been 4 games at Rupp since that were decided by one basket - LSU , where they hit a 3 pointer with 9 seconds left to win by 3, UNC where Davis blocked the shot and Mizzou which UK went to OT and we won by 7. I don't remember the final seconds of regulation in that game - and the most recent LSU game.

So we average about 1 game a year where the game is decided in the last 10 seconds at Rupp. Two of 'em went to OT and two of 'em were losses.

[crotch]

Either come up with the name of a team or this argument is over and I've proved my point. Game,set, match. Not saying Boehiem is a quitter... just stating that IMO in the back of his mind he knew odd were against him winning in Cameron after the call. Boeheim's no dummy.

[crotch]

BTW, guess who's coming to Rupp for the Arkansas game?? None other than Booby Knight. Would love to be sitting behind press table to hear the comments directed at this moron. Signs from student section will be classic.

[Jungle Rat]

UC drops from 7 to 11 on one horrible call after a great game. Doesn't make any sense. Louisville/UC should be ranked next to each other. Its that close.

[goldenbear]

The odds were against his team but not hopeless, so to make a point he takes away any chance for his team based on a calculation that this will convince the refs to give him the benefit of the doubt the next time he plays Duke at Cameron next year if it's a close game at the end of the game?

riiiiggght. I don't t think you really believe this. I hope you don't.

As for naming a team, when was the last time UNC lost a game at home leading by 2 with less than 10 seconds left and the ball? How about Kentucky? How about Syracuse? DO you realize how few games Syracuse has lost in total the last 5 years? How few at the Carrier Dome? How few of those they weren't trailing? Go and check. It ain't many and if their is once or twice it happened, it because the opposing team didn't quit which is what you are saying Boeheim did.

So your coaching philosophy is to quit when you are playing one of these top teams when you are trailing but within one basket. gimme a break. The answer will always be zero when you think you should be a quitter when your team has a chance.

When is the least time UNC or Kentucky won a game like this at home when the ref decided on the block charge, I cant think of one. IF you don't think Duke get more 50/50 block charges than anyone else in college hoops you have no been paying attention the last 20 years.

If you dont think Duke still gets away with the hand check watch the first half of the UNC Duke game in Carolina again. Thorton and Cook have their hands all of the Paige that is a new rule change but Duke does not get called for it.

[goldenbear]

UC drops from 7 to 11 on one horrible call after a great game. Doesn't make any sense. Louisville/UC should be ranked next to each other. Its that close.

Rankings are for guys like OWlman that really dont follow college hoop it is the national media and they have no clue they could not even name a player on the Shockers.

UNC is 1/2 game behind Duke in conference as one more loss overall just beat them and are 12 spots behind them.

Ranking mean nothing when it comes to seeding.

[goldenbear]

The Tar Heels had a chance to make it a two-possession game again, but Paige lost the ball on a dribble drive with 19.9 seconds left, leading to a jump ball that set up Mann's final shot.

This is a UNC home game up 2 against Belmont if that is Duke at home a jump ball would not have been called they would have called a foul, here is UNC home game they lost by 3. You asked for one.

Its the way it is.

[Owlman]

Jan 31, 2009

as far as I can tell there have only been 4 games at Rupp since that were decided by one basket - LSU , where they hit a 3 pointer with 9 seconds left to win by 3, UNC where Davis blocked the shot and Mizzou which UK went to OT and we won by 7. I don't remember the final seconds of regulation in that game - and the most recent LSU game.

So we average about 1 game a year where the game is decided in the last 10 seconds at Rupp. Two of 'em went to OT and two of 'em were losses.

That's not the statement he made. It has to be a game in which Kentucky was leading with less than 10 secs left and loss the game.

Duke has 3 losses at Cameron, in which there have they loss in the last seconds or overtime in the past 3 years, one of those was Florida STate who won on a last second 3 pointer, one other was Miami in overtime.

[Owlman]

I'm a Rice Owl fan. I went to Rice, UT Galveston, Syracuse and after living for 5 years in Durham, Duke for law school. My wife went to Rice, Stanford and Cornell. I have no loyalty to Duke. WHen I moved to North Carolina, I liked both programs. Why? Because they were run well with two great coaches (neither of which cried because their teams got beat). Fans of small schools know the truth, something that the fans of big schools are willfully blind about. WE know the biases that the big schools get at home. LSU knows that Kentucky will get the calls at home. Miss. ST., Ole Miss know Kentucky will get the calls at home. A&M knows when they go to Kansas the advantages Kansas gets. It's amazing that you guys can see this for Duke, but ignore it for yourselves. It's the close calls that go to those home teams, not the obvious ones.

Rankings are for guys like OWlman that really dont follow college hoop

When you want to make an argument or put down someone, use facts. Don't make up crap. I've never said anything about rankings. Making this comment not only weakens your statement, but it just makes you an ass.

[crotch]

TBH Owlman, I've just been funnin' you somewhat with my argument. You seem like a pretty knowledgeable good guy and I respect your theory. In all honesty, Boeheim did (maybe) cost his team a chance of winning bjut I'll always believe he was trying to send a message with that ourburst.

[hedge]

" It's amazing that you guys can see this for Duke, but ignore it for yourselves. It's the close calls that go to those home teams, not the obvious ones."

I don't ignore it, but I don't make a big deal about it either, for obvious reasons. I'd even go further and say that the top programs get more than their share of close calls in away games against teams not considered quite as elite. Finally, big name players at elite schools will get more favorable treatment, to the detriment of the lesser known players. I can't count the number of times when a touted Carolina player has kinda gotten away with something, and then some second team guy comes in and gets called for some ticky tack bullshit almost immediately. Maybe the refs feel guilty and are trying to make it up by calling shit on a scrub. Seriously, next time you watch a Carolina game, watch how quick Jackson Simmons gets called for a foul after he comes in the game. It's not an even trade-off, the elite programs get more close calls overall, but there is at least some level of balancing when they call questionable shit on the scrubs...

[goldenbear]

Maryland just drove down 1 Kieta swung down and threw blocked the shot but got a lot of shoulder afterwards. Game is at Maryland that call would have gone to Duke.

I really do not think UNC gets huge majority of the calls they get to the line a lot but they are one of the few teams in the country that pound it inside.

Just the other day JMM fouled out in close game with too questionable calls back to back against Pitt and Brice Johnson lost a ball when he was clearly hacked right after those calls.

The Next game JMM picked up a third foul against FSu that the announcers even went back to replay after commercial to show it was a terrible call.

I went to see Parker pick up two fouls at then end of game to foul out at Duke it wont happen.

[crotch]

So we're all in agreement that Dook will get 99% of questionable calls to go in their favor no matter whether they're playing at home or not, right??

[crotch]

Forgot just how fast and good John Wall was..... makin' the heels look silly. That team should have won it all.

[youtube]2zHphX4PE-I[/youtube]

[Saint]

Sorry, Crotch, I've looked at that replay 5-6 times and I'm still of the opinion the Duke player was set. I guess the vague notion of "beginning his upward motion" is where the debate is but the Syracuse player still had 1 foot firmly on the floor and I'm not sure that his other foot was completely off the floor either.

I figured Boeheim, in real time, only saw Hood do that shuffle as his guy ran into him but you can see on the replay, it came before.

But I would prefer to not see that called at all, late in the game or early or in the middle. Charging is the most overcalled foul in the college game, IMO.

[crotch]

Sorry, Crotch, I've looked at that replay 5-6 times and I'm still of the opinion the Duke player was set. I guess the vague notion of "beginning his upward motion" is where the debate is but the Syracuse player still had 1 foot firmly on the floor and I'm not sure that his other foot was completely off the floor either.

I figured Boeheim, in real time, only saw Hood do that shuffle as his guy ran into him but you can see on the replay, it came before.

But I would prefer to not see that called at all, late in the game or early or in the middle. Charging is the most overcalled foul in the college game, IMO.

The correct call should have been a no call.... but you're not going to get that no call at Dook. As eCat posted earlier, Tony Green had his mind made up that he was going to call something as soon as Fair drove to the basket.