Professor Tiger wrote:Yes.
me wrote:
I ask you why it is important that a wife (who is not a widow) be a virgin on her wedding night, and you don't have an answer for me. But its right there in the Bible. You just refuse to dignify the Bible.
Yes, the perfect situation is for both men and women save themselves until they are married. That is indeed the ideal, although I notice you only hold women to that standard, not men. The modern world is much like the Roman Empire where men and women commonly both have sex before marriage. But even in biblical times, the Church absorbed tens of thousands of former pagans that were far from virgins, since virginity wasn't respected by pagans. Those former pagans who became Christians were not banned from marriage within the Church. Forgiveness is always available through repentance. Even Jews and Christians who violated God's rules could repent of their past misdeeds. And they were also forgiven. See the woman who had five husbands.
You are moving the goal posts. I didn't say, ban all non-virgin women who weren't married from the church. I asked you why God stipulates that it is important for a woman (who is not a widow) be virgin on her wedding night. And specifically, a woman, not a man. And why? Here is a little helpful guide on the success of marriage escaping divorce in the United States:
- Both he and she are virgins on their wedding night, this is the best. This is really the only way a couple can "pair bond." 98% of these marriages last until death
- She is virgin and he is not. This is the second best scenario. She can still pair bond even if he can't. Within Christian marriages we are looking at about a 70+% success rate of lasting until death
- Neither are virgin on their wedding night. Success rate is not good at all. We are looking at divorce in most cases unless there are some major factors where society holds the two of them together (having kids together, working together, close family ties on both sides, common friends). Even in Christian marriages, its less than 40% and still, only the most educated hang in until death
- He's a virgin and she isn't. This is THE WORST! The entire power dynamic of dominant and submissive within the marriage, is gone. I would say the only way this marriage lasts until death is she is a widow and a very submissive one at that. Then there is a chance, but that is about it.
God created a woman's hymen for "proof" to the husband of a woman's virginity prior to their first night together. There is no male hymen. There is a valid purpose for the hymen, something that God knew was important even if you don't.
Professor Tiger wrote:me wrote:I ask you why it is important that a wife obey her husband in all things, and you don't have an answer for me. But its right there in the Bible. You just refuse to dignify the Bible.
I agree with wives submitting to husbands, as long as the husband also loves his wife as Christ loved the Church, i.e. total self sacrifice. I've noticed that you fixate on the former, but hardly ever mention the latter. Without the latter, the former makes a sham of any marriage and reduces it to mere slavery.
Slavery is part of the Bible. The wife must submit to the husband in all things. Full stop. If you want to call this slavery, that is on you. But she is the one who wanted to be his wife, the one who is signing up to be a "slave to her one master." Her body is not hers anymore, it belongs to her husband. That is why the father "gives her away" to her husband on her wedding day. And I'd argue that the first marriage, Eve had no choice in the matter (that marriage was arranged.) This submission of the wife to the husband is not "earned" by the husband constantly being a great guy. He earned it when he married her. And by the sweat of his brow, now he must keep her. He is responsible. But it is much easier to keep a wife if he knows that she will submit to do whatever he needs her to do. He needs a "helpmeet." That is Biblical. He don't typically get these kind of wives in the United States.
I'll pose another question to you Tiger, if a woman is not willing to do whatever her husband tells her to do (for the rest of her life) then WHY would she want to marry him?
Professor Tiger wrote:me wrote:I ask you why it is important that you instruct women never to preach to men about anything spiritual, and you don't have an answer for me. But its right there in the Bible. You just refuse to dignify the Bible.
In my church, only clergy can preach. And all our clergy are male. I agree with that.
Good.
Professor Tiger wrote:me wrote:I ask you why it is important to remind wives to submit to their husbands as much sex as their husbands desire, why God has instructed that to refuse your husband is committing sin, and you don't have an answer for me. But its right there in the Bible. You just refuse to dignify the Bible.
Where does the Bible say, "Wives must give their husbands as much sex as their husbands want"? Because of the submission clause? Submission does not automatically equal sexual access. The Bible uses the submission clause in a lot of places. Christians are supposed to "submit to one another" in Ephesians 5:21, and to their elders in 1 Pet. 5:5. Does that mean that if a man in your church, or an elder in your church, wants your wife to submit to him sexually, she should "submit" like the Bible says she should? Christians are supposed to "submit" to civil authorities in 1 Pet. 2:13. So if the mayor wants to have sex with you, should you submit?
What do mean, where does it say it? It's all over the Bible. Her body is not hers anymore. It belongs to him. His body is not his. It belongs to her. That is what God commanded of us. Are you kidding me? Yes, if you married the mayor, and he wants sex, he gets it, or you are in sin!
http://www.bible.ca/marriage/sex-on-demand.htm
God wrote:3."Sex when desired" by either partner: 1 Cor 7:3-4.
If your husband wants sex, it is a sin to refuse him. If your wife wants sex, it is a sin to refuse her. Bible sex is always consensual... your spouse asks, and you always say yes. Many a marriage can be saved by implementing this one rule alone. When you get married, you lose control of your body to your spouse. Studies have shown that about an equal amount of married women want more sex than their husbands, as married men who want more sex than their wives desire. It would be nice to match men and women up as marriage partners based upon their sex drive it would be great. But unfortunately this is often not the case. One partner wants sex more often than the other. In these situations, the partner that doesn't desire sex must immediately consent to their spouse. Scripture is very clear about this although most Christians have missed this.
4.1 Cor 7:3-4 also means that your spouse has control over you the way you dress, your hair cut and the way you physically look.
There is no such thing as marital rape, never-ever. Our secular laws regarding marital rape, are wrong. Until they are changed, that is a law rooted in feminism. Marital rape law, is just listening to Satan.
Professor Tiger wrote:me wrote:I ask you why it is important to tell young men that if they marry a divorced woman that they are committing adultery, and you don't have an answer for me. But its right there in the Bible. You just refuse to dignify the Bible.
Generally, I agree, as long as you agree that if a woman marries a divorced man, they are both committing adultery. It goes both ways. But, according to the Bible, there are two cases where that does not apply. Here's the first:
Matthew 5:32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason
except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."
Matthew 19:9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife,
except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
So, according to the Bible, divorce because of sexual immorality and remarriage is acceptable to Jesus, and is to me also.
The other case is abandonment:
1 Cor. 7:14-15 "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.
I believe that. I don't think you do, even though it's in the Bible.
There is no mistake. Luke 16:18, is clear.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16:18
God wrote:Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
The almighty knows in His infinite wisdom, that the only way to clamp down on secular, at-will divorce, is the concept that a wife knows that there will never-ever be another husband for her. She gets one shot. She can have another husband ONLY if the one she has.... dies. That is it. If women knew that going in, and they actually feared being alone without any provisioning, then our divorce rate would drop to near zero I assure you.
Professor Tiger wrote:I ask you to show me anywhere in the Bible anywhere where God says a woman can divorce her husband, and you don't have an answer for me. That is because it is NOT there in the Bible. You just refuse to dignify the Bible.
I suspect you will say that the above are cases where husbands can legitimately divorce their wives, but wives cannot. I will say that is an interpretation that is not shared by 99.9999% of any Christian authorities I know of for the past 2,000 years. I think I'll go with the 99.99999%. What you believe is what the Bible calls "private interpretation" (2 Pet 1:20) and worthless.
That is just feminism trumping God's law.
I don't give a damn what 99.9999% of any "Christian" authorities say about women having the right to divorce their husbands. I know they don't have that right. God never gave that to them, never-ever. I care what God says. I care what the Bible says, you do not.
Professor Tiger wrote:I hope that answers your questions. I'm sure it won't.
Not necessarily. I'm actually quite pleased with some of your answers. You are still a feminist on the other stuff.
Professor Tiger wrote:I just have one question for you: what training/education have you completed that qualifies you to be a Christian counselor?
Years and years of Bible study and teaching/counseling both children and young adults. It's amazing how many marriages you can save when people have genuine fear of loneliness of ex-communication. You fix a lot of marital problems by deferring to the KJ Bible. Unfortunately, I am having zero luck creating many Christian marriages lately. That is because of man's law regarding at-will divorce and the accompanying cash and prizes awarded to the welsher. Men who have taken the "red pill" are not empowered by secular government to "man up." Satan has a very strong hold on secular divorce law in the United States.