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Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:31 am
by Bklyn
Oh and, forgot to add, yes if we're only talking about the AIG issue and its impact on Goldman "being in trouble" then I agree. Which is why I originally said this in the first post:
Plus, unless you're talking about the impending total collapse of the banking system and Capitalism, in general, back in 2008 Goldman was never in any trouble.
If AIG was not bailed out, everything was done. Everything. The government would be spending the next 5 - 10 years trying to spin these entities back to being private. If that would have happened, could you imagine the regulations in place to protect the government from having to step in again? You think Dodd Frank is a bitch now? You have no idea.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:59 pm
by sardis
Bklyn wrote:Everyone in the market with exposure to Financials, Consumer Goods, Industrial Goods and maybe Conglomerates were assisted by the government in 2008. The Government propped up the capital markets tremendously.
Your comment ("buying them cheap with the help of the federal government") makes it seem as if the government in some way assisted Buffet in buying them cheap. That's not true. The government did not cause Goldman's price to drop...and thereby did not help Buffett take advantage of a sweet situation. The govt assisted (saved) the banking sector (in order to preserve its preferred economic system), and Goldman...plus a slew of other banks...were the beneficiaries of the sector's rescue via Govt intervention. @#!*% , anyone with a Large Cap fund in their 401(k) benefited the same way. Should you give back your profits gained from that save?
@#!*% , Buffett's doing the same play now with Bank of America...although I think it's a riskier move. The GS bet was a no-brainer...and it netted him about $3B (a 60% return). I don't know if the Return Gods will smile on him in the same way with BofA, but I doubt he'll lose much money, if any. The bank is too important to go away, even today, although the political climate for saves has changed dramatically in the past 3 years.
Word on the street is BofA was forced into the deal with Buffett because of the fed's fear of what was happening to BofA last month could possibly require fed involvement near the future. Like you said, a politically dire situation. It's plain as day that the fed is using Buffett as their bailout contractor to keep themselves at arms' length. The rewards for being at the fed's beckn all are quite nice. The return on Goldman and now the sweetheart deal with BofA.
And the fact that if AIG was not bailed out we'd all perish is pure speculative. Was there a possibility? perhaps, but even those involved admit they acted out of fear of the unknown.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:18 pm
by Jungle Rat
Hope that's a big wide street.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:59 pm
by Bklyn
And the fact that if AIG was not bailed out we'd all perish is pure speculative. Was there a possibility? perhaps, but even those involved admit they acted out of fear of the unknown.
Heh. Well, considering AIG paid out $108B to counterparties after its bail-out, with Deutsche, SocGen, Merrill, Goldman and a list of others (including municipalities and other foreign banks) all getting paid...and with that Merrill still had to be bought (at govt prodding) because it was losing so much money on toxic assets...I think it was safe to say if none of that $108B was paid, the dominoes globally would have fallen hard. Now, of course "financial armageddon" was speculation, as we did not have to see the consequences of no govt intervention. But, I have not had one person of any credibility detail to me what would have happened if we left all these entities (esp. AIG) out on its own.
Small business loans are hard enough to come by as it is today, what do you think would happen after a few global banks take a knee and worldwide fear rolls strong as no one is certain of the veracity of any bank's ability to safekeep their assets? Look up "U.S. bank runs 1929 to 1933" and see what happens when people stop believing a bank really has their money available for withdrawal.
I have no idea, nor have I heard anything, about the Fed striking deals with Buffett to capitalize banks with a wink and a nod. I won't say it's not true, but I surely haven't heard anything like that.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:19 pm
by Jungle Rat
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:34 pm
by guncase
where's the oregon state thread?
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:09 am
by eCat
my new philosophy of life
REAL MEN STAY UP!
[youtube]ZeR78GY4ekc[/youtube]
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:38 am
by eCat
serious question
If you compared Rick Perry and John McCain on issues of
immigration
abortion
fiscal policy
gun control
any other major issue
I look at Rick Perry and I see George Bush reincarnated, and there just wasn't that wide of a gap between the 2008 John McCain and George Bush except that McCain was really a moderate.
But maybe I'm just biased because I hate all politicians that remind me of George Bush.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:47 pm
by aTm
Rick Perry is a right wing whack nutjub (or at least pretending to be one, once those types started getting elected in Texas) whereas Bush was probably more of a centrist (in terms of Texas politics)
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:41 am
by Owlman
Bush irritated me a lot once he got in office. But I wouldn't insult Bush at all by saying Perry is just like him.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:32 am
by Bklyn
Obama secretly wishes Perry would get the GOP nod...and is not that scared of Romney. Funny enough, he was most scared of Huntsman, but it seems he won't get traction with the registered Repubs.
Even with shitty poll numbers, I'm making an early "4 more years" call.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:14 am
by eCat
well they are both texas governors who are pro-life, pro-immigration, and psuedo cater to the evangelical wing of the GOP.
Bush wanted to allow young people to privatize some of the social security taxes into individual accounts while Perry says the current structure is a ponzi scheme.
I guess I just don't see a big difference between them.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:35 am
by aTm
Maybe what Bush did was "psuedo catering", but Perry is actually a key cog in pushing evangelical wing policies in Texas,
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:39 am
by eCat
yea, I guess I can't even see Bush mandating that 12 year girls get STD protection.
if you haven't guessed by now, I don't like Rick Perry
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:45 am
by aTm
If we are as far down in the shitter by election time as I expect we will be, I will probably have to bite my tongue and vote for Perry, or anyone who can give businesses confidence to spend all the damn cash they are hoarding but are too afraid of what the govt will do next to actually expand or hire somebody.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:47 am
by aTm
Whoops, there I go pretending my vote would actually matter, particularly in an election with Perry.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:18 am
by eCat
aTm wrote:If we are as far down in the shitter by election time as I expect we will be, I will probably have to bite my tongue and vote for Perry, or anyone who can give businesses confidence to spend all the damn cash they are hoarding but are too afraid of what the govt will do next to actually expand or hire somebody.
that is actually a good point.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:49 pm
by Ron Mexico
Stick with this one for 30 seconds...
[youtube]Ss-sxhLDSdc[/youtube]
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:06 pm
by AlabamAlum
Heh.
Re: Florida State Seminoles
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:09 pm
by eCat
how does that even happen? a disgruntled technician who has already put in his two weeks notice?