The Goat Pen

There is no way that having classes which don't exist is normal across the NCAA. Most schools do have ridiculous programs that athletes can be funneled into. A&M's athletes probably study for a degree that Hedge could use, Agricultural Leadership or something. At most places there are petty jealousies because everybody knows that the athletes get assistance that others don't, or the star point guard stole your term paper on his way to the NBA, or something like that, but the idea that there are entire courses which don't meet? No way in hell, the faculty would whine and cry and squeal like pigs about it. Frankly it seems incredible that UNC has gotten away with it, basically. They planned out, set up registration for, presumably set up a documentation process in the school's catalogs etc to give out grades for these classes, etc, etc but it was all the work of only two people. Bullshit and amazing that anybody could buy it, and amazing that the faculty at UNC seem willing to look the other way.

"Utlimately, they may get their goal - to avoid any sanctions by the NCAA to their athletics program - but look at the cost to their reputation in the process."

When was the "Kentucky's Shame" cover published? I seem to recall one of UK's best decades ever coming very shortly after that. Perhaps their best decade ever. What you think of Carolina's "reputation" and what a stud high school baller thinks are probably two very different things. Certainly that was the case for UK in the 90's...

Mr. Farmer -savior of KY basketball and has his jersey retired if I recall - wonder what he is doing now? Probably not trying to drop the soap!! Some pipe hitting brother from Louisville is probably Rupping his arena as we speak. Damn you would think he would learn a lesson about being from Kentucky and trying to cheat the system.

Just remember:

Not if, but when.

"...and amazing that the faculty at UNC seem willing to look the other way."

This is why I'll wait and see because there is enough do gooders on faculty in Chapel Hill that would have squealed if they knew.

That type of thoughtful, rational response is not allowed, sardis. F, take a seat!

in the day and age of online classes and remote training, why would it raise an eyebrow to faculty in other disciplines?

especially given the potentially sensitive nature of calling out an African American studies class in North Carolina

Won't matter. People have already made up their minds based on their own perspective, as with anything. It just gives the ones who have been stung by UNC in the past a foot in the door of retribution.

The good news is that maybe this case will force the NCAA to demand the same of its student-athletes that it requires of all students and college athletics will again resemble the era that crotch holds dear. I think I'd like that.

Saint wrote:
The good news is that maybe this case will force the NCAA to demand the same of its student-athletes that it requires of all students and college athletics will again resemble the era that crotch holds dear. I think I'd like that.

...finally something we can agree on.

At the end of the day, unless you are a renowned academic bell cow, someone who is famous in your field for research/teaching/television in your own right, the institution you work at is a huge influence on your reputation. A lot of academics are simply nobodies who work at X University, and so its X University that's driving the rep. Academic fraud at your University can call into question what you're doing as an institution, minimally perhaps, but people don't generally take even minimal hits to their reps without getting upset about it.

Yeah, I'm sure that people who get a degree in chemistry, math, business, medicine, physics, etc, etc, etc, at UNC are really worried about how their credentials will be tarnished by an issue in the AfAm department...

"The good news is that maybe this case will force the NCAA to demand the same of its student-athletes that it requires of all students and college athletics will again resemble the era that crotch holds dear"

Bring back the Fiddlin' Five!!

I'm sure Crotch is dearly hoping that the era of the baggy shorts is on the way out, too...

aTm wrote:At the end of the day, unless you are a renowned academic bell cow, someone who is famous in your field for research/teaching/television in your own right, the institution you work at is a huge influence on your reputation. A lot of academics are simply nobodies who work at X University, and so its X University that's driving the rep. Academic fraud at your University can call into question what you're doing as an institution, minimally perhaps, but people don't generally take even minimal hits to their reps without getting upset about it.

well yea, now that the cat is out of the bag, but I'm saying back when this was going on and in the vacuum of athletics - thats a pretty big entity to take on to say is fraud

African American studies designed for revenue producing athletes at North Carolina

you'd be fired in about .02 seconds if you made one misstep, and as I said before, its not like the physics department is going to keep tabs on whats going on in language arts.

Professors are the hardest people to fire so I don't buy the threat over their heads theory. Is it because ALL the professors are loyal to UNC athletics that they let it pass? Doubt it. Was the fraud so under the radar that it was missed? More plausible than other theories, but would be surprising they could pull it off for so long.

We'll have to wait and see.

sardis wrote:Professors are the hardest people to fire so I don't buy the threat over their heads theory. Is it because ALL the professors are loyal to UNC athletics that they let it pass? Doubt it. Was the fraud so under the radar that it was missed? More plausible than other theories, but would be surprising they could pull it off for so long.

We'll have to wait and see.

Actually, academic fraud is one of the reasons that you can fire someone. Therefore, it's such a big penalty, it's surprising when it occurs. You see it normally with individual professors. A conspiracy is much harder.

I'm sure athletic director Bubba will get to the bottom of it

I don't recall aTm being quite this outraged over Manziel's football signings (or whatever illegal/unethical/scoundrelly thing he did)...

Owlman wrote:

sardis wrote:Professors are the hardest people to fire so I don't buy the threat over their heads theory. Is it because ALL the professors are loyal to UNC athletics that they let it pass? Doubt it. Was the fraud so under the radar that it was missed? More plausible than other theories, but would be surprising they could pull it off for so long.

We'll have to wait and see.

Actually, academic fraud is one of the reasons that you can fire someone. Therefore, it's such a big penalty, it's surprising when it occurs. You see it normally with individual professors. A conspiracy is much harder.

Right, but I think eCat's point was the fear of being fired by the school from speaking out about fraud by the school. I don't think professors have that fear.

sardis wrote:

Owlman wrote:

sardis wrote:Professors are the hardest people to fire so I don't buy the threat over their heads theory. Is it because ALL the professors are loyal to UNC athletics that they let it pass? Doubt it. Was the fraud so under the radar that it was missed? More plausible than other theories, but would be surprising they could pull it off for so long.

We'll have to wait and see.

Actually, academic fraud is one of the reasons that you can fire someone. Therefore, it's such a big penalty, it's surprising when it occurs. You see it normally with individual professors. A conspiracy is much harder.

Right, but I think eCat's point was the fear of being fired by the school from speaking out about fraud by the school. I don't think professors have that fear.

I think the relatively few that would be exposed to it would be. I could be wrong but I just don't see many academics being aware of this going on outside those attached to the athletic department.

That's right. At a school like UNC, there are always professors who believe that there is too much emphasis on Sports who would turn you as fast as possible. Full Professors are likely to attack more than others as well