The Goat Pen

internships should be when you are still in college, not out and expected to pay for loans.

eCat wrote:internships should be when you are still in college, not out and expected to pay for loans.

Internships, shouldn't even... exist (in or out of college) unless they are paid. Here is the law.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2013 ... -programs/

Here are the six factors considered by the Court:

1.The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.
2.The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern.
3.The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff.
4.The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.
5.The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship.
6.The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

If the useless department of labor actually did their job and enforced #4, there would be zero unpaid internships. Which means no internships.

any kid that has an internship related to the work we are doing gets hiring preference over anyone else when I'm talking to them at job fairs.

Most internships that I am aware of do little to benefit the employer other than providing a talent pool post graduation.

eCat wrote:any kid that has an internship related to the work we are doing gets hiring preference over anyone else when I'm talking to them at job fairs.

Most internships that I am aware of do little to benefit the employer other than providing a talent pool post graduation.

If they do ANYTHING to benefit the employer (anything at all, even the slightest little bit) then they better pay the kid something. If they don't pay, they are breaking the law, they should be shut down immediately, and the internship director should be incarcerated. And no eCat, getting preference in hiring at job fairs is NOT compensation for an intern. You have to give them MONEY.

innocentbystander wrote:

eCat wrote:any kid that has an internship related to the work we are doing gets hiring preference over anyone else when I'm talking to them at job fairs.

Most internships that I am aware of do little to benefit the employer other than providing a talent pool post graduation.

If they do ANYTHING to benefit the employer (anything at all, even the slightest little bit) then they better pay the kid something. If they don't pay, they are breaking the law, they should be shut down immediately, and the internship director should be incarcerated. And no eCat, getting preference in hiring at job fairs is NOT compensation for an intern. You have to give them MONEY.

either you or someone you know got fucked over as an intern

eCat wrote:

innocentbystander wrote:

eCat wrote:any kid that has an internship related to the work we are doing gets hiring preference over anyone else when I'm talking to them at job fairs.

Most internships that I am aware of do little to benefit the employer other than providing a talent pool post graduation.

If they do ANYTHING to benefit the employer (anything at all, even the slightest little bit) then they better pay the kid something. If they don't pay, they are breaking the law, they should be shut down immediately, and the internship director should be incarcerated. And no eCat, getting preference in hiring at job fairs is NOT compensation for an intern. You have to give them MONEY.

either you or someone you know got fucked over as an intern

I have never done an internship in my life. There is ZERO CHANCE I ever would have given my time (for free) in any office doing anything. But Millennials today think they have to do this and colleges hold a gun to their heads by not letting them earn their degrees without some kind of internship credit. Which is just ridiculous. Pick a major that doesn't require it. Or pick another school. But yes, I do know quite a few kids who were completely screwed. One of them was so bad after he graduated, he went and called the department of labor and "ratted them out" for what they were doing to the kids. He'll be testifying in court to try and shut that internship program, down.

I mean look at this....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/peop ... /31480605/

The vast majority of young execs hired in hospital admin do an unpaid or low paid internship first. The downside is, of course, you may not get hired, but if you do, you walk into a 6-figure job at age 24 or whatever. Even if you are passed over, you've got some real world experience and letters of rec to go with that freshly printed MBA or MSHA degree. Which is huge.

Most new grads entering mgmt/admin/exec jobs are not fully prepared to do the job they are being hired for. This gives them a chance to learn and make some connections. It allows the company a chance to pick the candidate that best fits their needs.

WASHINGTON — Legislation to allow student loan borrowers to refinance at lower interest rates failed to clear a procedural hurdle in the U.S. Senate on Wednesday, dooming a measure that was a Democratic priority ahead of November congressional elections.

Democrats had said the bill would let holders of both federal and private undergraduate loans - some with rates of 9 percent or higher - to refinance at 3.86 percent. Republicans thought the legislation was too expensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2014/06/ ... dents.html

I don't remember us turning down a kid that had an internship in our industry during college - our challenge is most of them already have at least 1 job offer when they talk to us.

I have sophomores begging me for internships/co-ops when I go to job fairs.

I think a company should pay an intern - we pay ours pretty well - something like $22 an hour, but this is college credit work they are doing - I don't see it any different than doing a project for class - and the side benefit is you're making connections that are going to pay you big dividends after you graduate.

I'd do an internship for free if I was in college, but I'd make sure it was the right one. Working at some bullshit job that has no bearing on your future carreer is just stupid and wasting your time.

Most internships are far more beneficial to the intern than to the company. You meet people, network, learn the ropes. All doctors have to "intern" for some number of years at - if BOJ is to be believed - far less than minimum wage. I doubt it's that low, but it's a comparative pittance to what they will end up making. Finally, all I really need to know is that if IB is against it, whatever it is, it must be something sound and valid and valuable...

hedge wrote:Most internships are far more beneficial to the intern than to the company. You meet people, network, learn the ropes. All doctors have to "intern" for some number of years at - if BOJ is to be believed - far less than minimum wage. I doubt it's that low, but it's a comparative pittance to what they will end up making. Finally, all I really need to know is that if IB is against it, whatever it is, it must be something sound and valid and valuable...

A medical internship for a doctor is PAID. Do not believe the BOJ. You don't make much (maybe $15 to $20 an hour) but you are paid. NOT AT ALL what I am talking about and you know it.

I see a real opportunity here for a GOP candidate to capitalize on the millenials (even the ones who think they are compelled to vote for HRC) if they attack unpaid internships. This is a true Occupy Wall Street, we are the 99% bullshit that even the GOP could get behind. If Trump picks this one up..... I think he wins... everything.

AlabamAlum wrote:The vast majority of young execs hired in hospital admin do an unpaid or low paid internship first. The downside is, of course, you may not get hired, but if you do, you walk into a 6-figure job at age 24 or whatever. Even if you are passed over, you've got some real world experience and letters of rec to go with that freshly printed MBA or MSHA degree. Which is huge.

Totally unacceptable AA. If I was a labor law attorney and I knew about this, and I found out your interns worked for free, I would investigate and shut you down, immediately. You would no longer have an internship program. You are breaking the law.

You're full of shit, IB. Voluntary internships happen. It's done in admin, nursing, medicine, and even crafts as part of coursework - and especially to get experience and a grade in a graduate level class for professions.

The second they don't happen, hospitals won't hire new grads into exec positions. We will shrug our shoulders and train from within or hire someone who does have some experience. And the new grad MBAs can go be McDonald's managers, or if we do have them, they will start off in the mailroom.

Hell, just to graduate nursing school as an undergrad, you're going to do a 6-week unpaid internship (preceptorship) as your final course.

So, go ahead, IB, hop pn it. Start calling attorneys. I can point you to HUNDREDS of nursing, business, medical, and other professional schools.


Hell, many lawyers do an unpaid clerkship or internship as a 3L. My son did. So, the lawyers can start with suing their lawschools.

Moron.

AlabamAlum wrote:You're full of shit, IB. Voluntary internships happen. It's done in admin, nursing, medicine, and even crafts as part of coursework - and especially to get experience and a grade in a graduate level class for professions.

The second they don't happen, hospitals won't hire new grads into exec positions. We will shrug our shoulders and train from within or hire someone who does have some experience. And the new grad MBAs can go be McDonald's managers, or if we do have them, they will start off in the mailroom.

Hell, just to graduate nursing school as an undergrad, you're going to do a 6-week unpaid internship (preceptorship) as your final course.

I'm not full of shit. But these UNPAID internships ARE full of shit. They are criminal. If you bring in an intern and you don't pay them, you damn well better expect that the intern will get in your way of doing business. They can not add ANY VALUE, NONE! As in ZERO. Here is THE LAW....

Federal Law wrote:4.The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.

What part of that law DON"T you understand? If you are running the internship and you demand that your unpaid interns contribute in anyway, you should probably face federal charges. I'm not a lawyer but getting a guilty conviction on you would be so easy, it would be tit. The law is the law and you would be breaking it.

Nurses that do "med surg" rotations while in school, are not adding ANY VALUE. They just lurk over shoulders and ask questions. They GET IN THE WAY. They bring NOTHING to the table, absolutely nothing. They do not assist and make things even the least bit cheaper for the hospital. And that is the way an unpaid internship is supposed to work, the only way it is lawful.

The reason why the kids sign up for and in some cases, ASK to do an unpaid internship is because the kids are.... pussies. They think they have to is all. They are not negotiating on their own best interests. They don't know the law and they are scared, terrified that they will be "left behind" their peers who DO the unpaid internships. In that sense, the unpaid internship has turn the job market for college graduates looking for entry level work into a sort of.... credentialing arms race. That is basically what it is. It is signaling, nothing more. The job market signals that the kids MUST to an internship because some of them are able to do so. What ends up happening is the kids with the most financial resources available to pay their bills while working as volunteer slaves, have a tactical advantage. They can afford to work for nothing, while someone else with the same credentials, may not be. All that said, even if the kids volunteer for these things, the federal law is clear and the intern is not permitted by law to voluntarily negotiate against his own interests. The law protects kids who are too pussy to know that they are being taken advantage of....

Did you even look at my links? Those 40 interns who sued the Olson twins, they are going to win, they are going to get money, and someone who ran that internship for the Olson's is going to jail. That is going to happen. And it could happen to you too AA.

AlabamAlum wrote:So, go ahead, IB, hop pn it. Start calling attorneys. I can point you to HUNDREDS of nursing, business, medical, and other professional schools.

Hell, many lawyers do an unpaid clerkship or internship as a 3L. My son did. So, the lawyers can start with suing their lawschools.

Moron.

It doesn't matter what your son did. If on his internship as a 3L he wasn't paid BUT he added value (did work that the school needed done and would have had to PAY SOMEONE to do it if your son didn't pussy out and just do it for free), then the law school could (and probably should) be sued. In fact, the school should be shut down, the accreditation revoked. There are no exceptions to this federal law.



I'm not full of shit. I know the law. The government largely just looks the other way and gives schools and employers the old "wink and a nod" with their unpaid internships, because the only people who are genuinely angry about this are the millennials and (at the moment) no one is listening to them. You and I can both Google many instances of unpaid interns SUING their internships. And they all have cases. And they are all going to win. That is the only way to shut down this racket of free labor.

Hey Alabama Alum....

are these people full of shit too?

http://unpaidinternslawsuit.com/

All they do is sue people like you who set up unpaid internships. Maybe your son who is a lawyer should ask to work as an unpaid intern for these people? I'm sure he'd love that.

But wait, there is more....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmessitt ... d-interns/

...they are going to win that one too. Or are they full of shit, too? I don't know if they'll get the whole $5 mil as both sides should settle, but they will win.

These are educational programs, numbnuts. Perfectly legal. Been vetted. Countless times. Over decades. BUT SUE!

The ones who aren't a part of an edu program (or have a mixed purpose) are paid. Not a lot, though. But enough to make it legal.

No one in the history of forever has ever been as confident, with as little intelligence, as you are. You bandy about with a tilted head spouting off absolutes because of some article in Forbes you had someone read to you, you goddamned, mouth-breathing troglodyte. You have single-handedly turned more conservatives liberal, through their desire to not be associated with you, than you can possibly imagine. Please, only address me again if you are announcing your plans to commit seppuku.

Fuck off.

Trump might but no one else in the GOP is going to push for paid interns above and beyond what is bound by law now.

That's not the GOP approach.