The Goat Pen

41% of Republicans say Benghazi is the biggest scandal in American history. Of that 41%, 39% couldn't name what country it's in. LOL

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main ... ghazi.html

I believe this IRS thing is more serious and potentially more damaging to the administration than Benghazi will be.

crashcourse wrote:http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... -unfolded/

I really dont know what else was expected by the repubs short of a platoon of marines being deployed 24/7.

The attack was planned and it was coincidental that it happened the same day the cairo demonstrations over the film took place.

The term "several" DS agents leaving to get tactical gear tells me they split up and left the ambassador and 1 DS agent who also abandoned them leaving the 2 alone in a "safe house" that was burning all around them.

But within 25 minutes of the attack they had 20-30 local militias friendlies along with a security team from the CIA onsite along with "several" DS agents.

so overall I think they had a fairly good presence but that was an overwhelming coordinated attack

for the administration to blame it for 3 days on the propaganda film deflected attention away from the bad guys. still no arrests or justice served on this one

Good honest post, crash.

Getting back to this poll for a sec, it continues to amaze me how little Republicans care about Iran-Contra and how so many don't see anything wrong with what Ollie North did. Indeed, he's something of a hero today. And these same people will talk about Iran being America's #1 worst enemy. He orchestrated a scheme to SELL WEAPONS TO IRAN. In order to buy heroin! To give to Nicaraguan death squads-sorry-"freedom fighters". In direct violation of numerous U.S. laws, including illegal trade with Iran and illegal support to the Contras in defiance of a congressional order. Not to mention that he worked alongside some of Central and South America's most notorious druglords in order to ensure that the Contras continued to get their lucrative source of income, including Noriega, who we denounced as a criminal and a villain just a few years later!

North has admitted basically all of this.

So why again is Ollie North hailed by so many on the Right as a hero and a true Patriot?

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main ... ghazi.html

If R's had voted in same numbers as in 2008...still stunned that so many people simply didn't vote.

Because Romney was such a terrible candidate that excited nobody outside the Chamber of Commerce.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:I believe this IRS thing is more serious and potentially more damaging to the administration than Benghazi will be.

I always believed that Benghazi would quickly pass as an issue. Benghazi is a LONG way from the faculty lounge and the Upper East side, and is therefore considered by the left as unimportant.

I also thought that the DOJ spying on the AP would be a bigger story since the infraction involves freedom of the press - a right that the left prizes. The jury is still out on that one, but so far it looks like it might be Benghazi-lite.

So it surprises me somewhat that you consider the IRS story to be that big a deal. So some IRS goons decided they wanted to impress the Administration by using their official power to harass conservative groups. I wouldn't have considered that kind of thing so extraordinary. It strikes me as kinda Chicago, where Obama and I have spent a significant portion of our lives. Sean Connery said it best in "The Untouchables":

He brings a knife, you bring a gun.
He puts one of yours in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue.
That's the Chicago way.

P.S. If an Administration can't use its IRS to punish its political enemies, then what's the fun in having an IRS?

In other news, this is encouraging:

US to Surpass Russia as World's Largest Non-OPEC Oil Producer

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013/05 ... =obnetwork

Yeah, the IRS thing is less trouble for Oprama than the other two. The IRS supercedes political parties, even Presidents. They are not targeting tea partiers because they are the enemy of Oprama, they are targeting the tea partiers because they are the enemies of the IRS. The IRS has more power than any other government bureaucracy. They don't need a warrant. They don't have to prove you guilty. They don't have to pay restitution if they treat you wrong. The IRS has seized assets on clients while his response to the IRS is sitting in someone's cube waiting to be reviewed. Just ask Al Capone. He managed to avoid every other enforcement agency, but the IRS. Why? They don't need to wait on juris prudence. The people that work in this bureaucracy have a nice lifestyle and they would like to keep it that way. I think the PR hit will be to the IRS, not Oprama.

I agree with those who say that the military response to the Benghazi incident is defensible. It is debatable whether those lives would have been saved if proper security was in place, whatever that is. What people hate is the opportunism of blaming some poor guy making a muslim movie. A purposeful, outright lie to the public on the Sunday talk shows and even over the caskets of the victims of the incident. It is not illegal, but the public court of opinion views it as a shameless act.

The AP is the one that will hurt Oprama the most. You just made an enemy of an ally. An ally that shapes stories to every news medium in the country. They will want to save Hillary, but they, along with other Democrat cronies, hate his guts right now.

The public views Ollie North as Hannibal Smith bucking the system to get hostages freed. Using illegal means for a good outcome. Still wrong, but the public is more forgiving to a Robin Hood military guy than a politician using the system to make them look good, or not bad.

Is Eric Holder married to Oprah?

"He orchestrated a scheme to SELL WEAPONS TO IRAN. In order to buy heroin!"

I wish I had thought of that...

"I also thought that the DOJ spying on the AP would be a bigger story since the infraction involves freedom of the press - a right that the left prizes."

Are you suggesting that freedom of the press isn't a right that conservatives should prize as well?

I agree with much of what Sardis said about the 3 fronts oprama is on, and I think the AP phone records/wiretaps is by far the most egregious. But that action has patriot act-like cover built into it - ferreting out leaks that could give aid and comfort to terrorists blah blah 9/11-changed-everything- blah. Anything to stop those "turr-ist killers" - even if we have to two-step around our Constitiution.

Some of these "patriot" groups have formed in order to openly strategize circumventing paying taxes to what they see as an illegitimate IRS/federal government. One would expect that if a guy walked into a bank wearing a t-shirt that says "I rob banks" that he would garner more attention than the other customers.

That said, it appears a few people within the Service have abused their authority and if crimes have been committed, they should be held accountable..to the full extent of the law!

hedge wrote:Kinda like global warming!

Kinda like no warming in more than a decade which none of Gwarming lovers predicted.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:41% of Republicans say Benghazi is the biggest scandal in American history. Of that 41%, 39% couldn't name what country it's in. LOL

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main ... ghazi.html

heh heh

bluetick wrote:

puterbac wrote:
Well frankly is used to be more fun for me when people actually tried to debate a subject. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to go on as much anymore.

Now many just throw out a few one liners or take a shoot the messenger approach (Hi Tick!).

I prefer to have some reasonable debate on issues.

heh For the uninitiated, puter liked to spice things up with articles from NewsMax and WorldNewsDaily...two rwnj web sites devoted to scaring retirees into buying gold-plated coins.

The best were the British tabloid websites, though. Every article displayed came with the unspoken (or spoken!) warning that whatever the Brits were having to endure, it was only a matter of time before the USA faced the same calamity. That's why we're now up to our armpits in muslims eating our police dogs, petstore owners going to prison for selling goldfish, and old people dying of loneliness and neglect in dentist's waiting rooms.

Heh...for the uninitiated nearly every article linked from those sites was an AP/Reuters or other news wire story. Kind of an important point.

Tick likes to ignore the case study that is Britain when it comes to govt healthcare. When he can't rebut the points in the article he then looks for links for other articles on whatever site it is trying to say that since there is some retarded article it all fluff so move along nothing to see here.

Of course you can find those types of articles on pretty much any site:

On CNN main page right now:

-Your new office BFFs: Think young

-Dancing' down to the final four

-'NCIS' finale -- burning questions

AlabamAlum wrote:Puter is good people. I don't agree with what he says much of the time, but he is a good American who has a developed sense of fair play and a desire to understand others' opinions as well as defend his own beliefs.


Sure, some people take the intellectually lazy road and just attack the source of what he posts, but the true patriot will argue the points that he makes or that the linked article makes.

SEC.

I'm pretty sure we agree more than not.

We generally agree on taxes, guns, SEC dominance, and Mike Price being a model Bama Football coach.

Dr. Strangelove wrote:I believe this IRS thing is more serious and potentially more damaging to the administration than Benghazi will be.

Probably that and the AP story. The press has sucked up to the admin since inception and for this to occur and the reported bullying of whisteblowers and reporters in general may eventually have a breaking point.

Libya - Depends. Its pretty clear that the admin was on a Baghdad Bob misinformation campaign to avoid "Terroist Attack" headlines that close to an election. The lying may end up being the worst thing, but the coverup always is isn't it? I really would like to know WHY the rapid reaction forces weren't at least put in the air so you have the option if you need it later. If the morons had just been honest and said yep it was a terrorist attack and the world is still a dangerous place and we will find out how this happened, end of story. Not much else would have likely came of it.

Anyway I don't think this is anything new for Oprama. He was raised in Chicago politics and the bullying and do it my way or you get punished is how it is done in Chicago land. I think he is actually surprised that he can't get his way on everything.

Professor Tiger wrote:

Dr. Strangelove wrote:I believe this IRS thing is more serious and potentially more damaging to the administration than Benghazi will be.

I always believed that Benghazi would quickly pass as an issue. Benghazi is a LONG way from the faculty lounge and the Upper East side, and is therefore considered by the left as unimportant.

I also thought that the DOJ spying on the AP would be a bigger story since the infraction involves freedom of the press - a right that the left prizes. The jury is still out on that one, but so far it looks like it might be Benghazi-lite.

So it surprises me somewhat that you consider the IRS story to be that big a deal. So some IRS goons decided they wanted to impress the Administration by using their official power to harass conservative groups. I wouldn't have considered that kind of thing so extraordinary. It strikes me as kinda Chicago, where Obama and I have spent a significant portion of our lives. Sean Connery said it best in "The Untouchables":

He brings a knife, you bring a gun.
He puts one of yours in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue.
That's the Chicago way.

True, but there are several reports of confidential info from these applications being leaked directly to the Oprama campaign and used against R's.

So Oprama directly benefiting from the information adds another dimension to it.

It's a shame that Coach Price didn't get a fair shake. He too would have won a lot of games, but more importantly he would've changed the culture of that program for the better.

Definitely an advocate for the working women..