North Carolina Tar Heels

[innocentbystander]

That's the thing, like most "ist" issues, it never really comes up for the "other" side. No commentator gets on the air and says Michael Phelps must work harder at being a success because he'll never be an attractive dude. Those things aren't told to little boys. How attractive they are is way down the list on attributes worthy of comment with regard to their success.

For women, it's a different deal. You see it in the press all the time. Everyone will spend days talking about a female politician's hairstyle or clothing choices, but won't say the same for a male pol (unless it's something egregious). In business, attributes ascribed to a male are strong but those same attributes are labeled "bitch" if a woman displays them. The varying standard of personal qualities amongst the genders is true, but it doesn't mean it's not sexist.

Mostly true. But these are the reasons why we don't look at men and women the same way. Like it or not, society (no matter how much we don't want it to) quite often judges women in positions of authority or celebrity based on their looks. We do this with men as well, but to a much lesser extent. (men are judged more harshly than women in other ways.)

[Bklyn]

Quite often, but not as much as they used to.

So, while we don't look at men and women the same way (and sometimes we should not), we do so more now than we did in the past. That's a good thing. Identifying where it's wrong and addressing the discourse surrounding it is a start. That's why this dude should be called to the carpet for what he said.

It took years for Anglo-Americans to look at the Irish in more equal terms. It took even longer for those same Americans to look at Italians in more equal terms. It takes time, but stagnation in actions and enlightenment should not be accepted easily.

all true, btw

[Jungle Rat]

By a crown with wings might

I didn't think we were debating whether it was harmless, though. I thought we were debating if it was sexist. That's an easy bar to see he cleared (I can't imagine he would have ever said that about a dude...Michael Phelps is example A). I don't think he should be fired for it, but it was definitely a sexist thing to say.

[Bklyn]

Huh?

[sardis]

"It took years for Anglo-Americans to look at the Irish in more equal terms. It took even longer for those same Americans to look at Italians in more equal terms."

It's going to take some of us more time...

[innocentbystander]

It took years for Anglo-Americans to look at the Irish in more equal terms. It took even longer for those same Americans to look at Italians in more equal terms.

I'm not sure they DO look at them in more "equal" terms. If you are an American of British ancestory, you might still regard Americans of Irish ancestory as drunk brawlers (certainly, not their equal) and you might still regard Americans of Italian ancestory as loud, prideful folks, who are far too quick to anger (again, not their equal.) I see this all the time. Not "equal" Blykn (certainly not in all things.)

And I don't think it will change. It isn't getting any better because these differences are rooted in cultural differences. It doesn't mean they aren't all great friends with each other. They are. They just look at each other a little differently.

Moreover, people don't typically refer to Americans of British ancestory as "Anglo." The only time I've ever heard that is the term WASP and I almost never hear that. They are just Americans. Americans who tend to hyphenate their ancestory (either by choice or by tradition) are discriminating themselves from "the group" and (in my opinion), are often looking at themselves as less "equal." Anglo-Americans would NEVER do that to themselves. Anglo-Americans already KNOW that they are boring, insufferable, elistist bastards, why segregate themselves so that everyone knows how insufferable they are?

[sardis]

You must be one of those Mic bastards...

[innocentbystander]

You must be one of those Mic bastards...

probably, (somewhere)

i am from Boston so yeah, probably a little Mic in there (somewhere)

[Bklyn]

And I don't think it will change. It isn't getting any better because these differences are rooted in cultural differences

If you don't think the plight of the Irish American and Italian American are better than they were 100 years ago, then you are either holding onto a false premise or ignorant of history. The latter offers help for change, the former will make me do a full stop. I'm not going to waste the keystrokes.

[10ac]

More insensitivity!

http://jimromenesko.com/2013/07/08/sun- ... -headline/

[innocentbystander]

And I don't think it will change. It isn't getting any better because these differences are rooted in cultural differences

If you don't think the plight of the Irish American and Italian American are better than they were 100 years ago

I did not say that

then you are either holding onto a false premise or ignorant of history. The latter offers help for change, the former will make me do a full stop. I'm not going to waste the keystrokes.

Things are much better. Things are not completely "equal" (nor will they ever be.) The difference here is perception. You can't change the way people perceive one another. You can't have government create laws to force you to change your mind.

[innocentbystander]

Hey hedge, ds, and auggie,

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/07/02/ ... ng-to.html

First they let in the boys, they they wipeout have their endowment to buy buildings in bankruptcy.

Well, at least they are doing something.

[Jungle Rat]

Bus station. Please jump in front of one.

[Owlman]

laws aren't created to make you change your mind. They are created to decrease the impact of you not changing your mind.

[innocentbystander]

laws aren't created to make you change your mind. They are created to decrease the impact of you not changing your mind.

correct. of that there is no dispute. but that doesn't address the point I made about things not being "equal."

[Owlman]

Actually, your point as stated was that govt created laws to force people to change they mind. Your quote:

"You can't have government create laws to force you to change your mind."

My statement specifically addressed that quote.

[Bklyn]

I like how I quoted IB & he quotes that quote & says "I didn't say that."

Maybe it's not what you meant, but it is what you said. Post Script qualifiers don't count.

[innocentbystander]

I like how I quoted IB & he quotes that quote & says "I didn't say that."

Maybe it's not what you meant, but it is what you said. Post Script qualifiers don't count.

Well.....

...read into it anyway you'd like.

[hedge]

I read it this way:

" And I don't think it will change. It isn't getting any better because these differences are rooted in cultural differences..."

Then:

"Things are much better."

[Owlman]

Charl Schwartzel so angry at the British open he snaps his iron in half