The Goat Pen

Ferguson was pretty tame as far as riots go. Nobody killed, a couple of businesses burned out plus a police car. So it goes for a town of 20k.

Now Detroit in the summer of '67...there were so many blocks in flames that the FD just let 'em burn. 40-50 killed..

cities aflame in the summer time..and the beat goes on

Detroit is still standing?

"If all three men had obeyed the commands of the police officers, they are alive today. PERIOD"

Men??? he was 12.

"Your grandfather, you, and me were raised to respect the law and understand our rights."

Actually, my grandfather, me and my father were taught that you can't always trust the police despite your rights. They are correct on that point. I trust 90% of the police 90% of the time. That is a problem though for my sons and myself.

crashcourse wrote:47 cops shot dead this year so far
150 homicides in chicago this year most by shootings
over 1,000,000 per year classified as violent crime"

What does this response have to do with Tamir Rice? 12 year old boy. Boy.

I trust my local city cops a bunch. County & Cincy cops not so much.

http://streetz945.com/proof/wp-content/ ... 11/gun.jpg

you don't have this in your waistband when a cop pulls up after getting a report somebody ws waving around a gun scaring people

tragedy yes --murder/manslaughter or a felony--up to the grand jury tpo make that decision

would another cop have handled it differently--possibly probably who knows

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/ ... 518605.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 426-h320-n

I think this is smart

I""When Police Kill, Should They Judge Themselves?""

"The law they put forth would make Wisconsin the first state in the nation to mandate, on the legislative level, that if an officer was involved with a loss of life, that outside investigators must come in and collect the data and investigate that shooting."

yea I read that a few weeks ago. An independent board - comprised of community members might make a difference

kinda thought that was what the grand jury was for

that case is going to the grand jury

after watching the clip you do see him walking twords the cop car reaching into his belt

never walk twords a cop car reaching for a toy gun when somebody already called you in as a threat "scaring people"

http://mashable.com/2014/12/08/tamir-rice-grand-jury/

haven't you ever seen the donk donk show.

"n the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: The police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders.

No where do you see grand jury in the investigations. They can only rule on the information provided for them by the district attorney who normally works closely with the police

I understand that

but you dont need to be unanimous with the grand jury indictment. these high profile cases genrally the DA is not withholding evidence

DAs are disincentivized from pursuing a vigorous prosecution against the police. DAs that have done that in the past have run into major problems politically and are not rewarded by the constituency they are serving. It doesn't help DAs by going strong after police involved in violent interactions with the citizenry, so they rarely do. The Ferguson DA (McCollough?) is an excellent example of that.

Bklyn wrote:DAs are disincentivized from pursuing a vigorous prosecution against the police. DAs that have done that in the past have run into major problems politically and are not rewarded by the constituency they are serving. It doesn't help DAs by going strong after police involved in violent interactions with the citizenry, so they rarely do. The Ferguson DA (McCollough?) is an excellent example of that.

He should be disbarred for knowingly allowing people to testify that he knew were lying.

crashcourse wrote:I understand that

but you dont need to be unanimous with the grand jury indictment. these high profile cases genrally the DA is not withholding evidence

Not true. It's not high profile cases that they treat differently with grand juries, it's cases where they don't want an indictment. Let it be some celebrity they want to use as an example. If they want an indictment, they don't treat them differently.

Owlman wrote:

Bklyn wrote:DAs are disincentivized from pursuing a vigorous prosecution against the police. DAs that have done that in the past have run into major problems politically and are not rewarded by the constituency they are serving. It doesn't help DAs by going strong after police involved in violent interactions with the citizenry, so they rarely do. The Ferguson DA (McCollough?) is an excellent example of that.

He should be disbarred for knowingly allowing people to testify that he knew were lying.

Agreed

Cops have a job to do like everyone else. They get paid more than the education level necessary because it's dangerous. If they can't arrest unarmed people without shooting them multiple times with a revolver, they shouldn't be a cop. Period. It's not about the crime rate committed by blacks that put cops on edge. That's using the same old shallow rhetoric as those who still think welfare moms are the biggest problem we have in this country. There are plenty of instances of cops just gunning down people for little reason.

And I can guaran-damn-tee you, BRM, if a cop pulled you over, saw that you were trying to stuff a Steak n' Shake Double & Cheese Steakburger® down your filthy maw while you were driving and demanded that you put it down before you hand him your greasy license, you, sir, would be unable to comply and would likely be shot and your burger taken anyway.

Don't think shit can't happen to you...

That is the dumbest post I've ever seen on here Stu. You are better than that.

I don't think I am above any of this. I will however do my best to not put myself in that situation and if I am in the situation it will be on my end to be responsible and respectful. I will do my best to record the situation with my phone or car camera and deal with any issues after that. I don't carry a gun nor have one in my vehicle. I don't do drugs nor do I transport them. I don't drink and drive. '

There are bad cops out there, don't get me wrong. Just like they are bad EMTs, teachers, tax accountants, doctors, and pizza delivery guys. If the entire culture is raised on Fuck Da Police and no consequences for their actions, well bad shit is going to happen.

Personal responsibility. People need to learn it.

Do you know the genesis of the "Fuck Da Polie" culture. Google "Los Angeles Rampart Scandal."

The cops helped create that culture, no better than the punk ass criminals that thrive off of it. The it's a cycle that then creates its own momentum.

I've railed on the police here many times - but I understand its a no win job, it has little margin of error - the pay and hours are shit, you only see the worst of humanity every day and if you have any humanity in you at all, it has to weigh on you that you have liberty to take a life or unlike the accountant or mechanic, have your life taken.

In a town like I live where there a murder occurs maybe once every 4 years, drugs and felony crime are miles down the road - then I would imagine being a cop is more about serving the public - enforcing ordinances, old people getting scammed, mail boxes being knocked over, bad checks...the general malaise of overwhelming lower to middle class residents. Your chance of being a victim of crime here is basically statistically zero. I wouldn't call it a white flight neighborhood but I suspect 10% of the residents commute.

Of course we are here because of our anchor in some sort to Cincinnati, 12 miles away might as well be a world away - where residents of the Lincoln Heights neighborhood have 12x as likely a chance of being a victim of a serious crime over the national average.

What I'd like to know is - are the blacks in my community feeling profiled as if they live in an area that has 12x the chance of crime above the national average. Are they feeling different than the asian family that runs the Chinese restaurant or the Mexicans that live here doing their various jobs. I'd also like to ask them why they chose to live in this little town 12 miles from Cincinnati - was non-existent crime one of the reasons.

BigRedMan wrote:That is the dumbest post I've ever seen on here Stu. You are better than that.

I don't think I am above any of this. I will however do my best to not put myself in that situation and if I am in the situation it will be on my end to be responsible and respectful. I will do my best to record the situation with my phone or car camera and deal with any issues after that. I don't carry a gun nor have one in my vehicle. I don't do drugs nor do I transport them. I don't drink and drive. '

There are bad cops out there, don't get me wrong. Just like they are bad EMTs, teachers, tax accountants, doctors, and pizza delivery guys. If the entire culture is raised on Fuck Da Police and no consequences for their actions, well bad shit is going to happen.

Personal responsibility. People need to learn it.

Your main flaw in this argument you keep putting forth is that you don't seem to understand that it is different for you and for me, for that matter. Sure, many of those who suffer at the hands of the police had it coming and yes, there are a lot of crimes committed by black men and that makes police understandably edgy. But there are plenty of instances where a person has been shot for no reason (witness the 50-something black guy in SC shot when he was reaching, as had been directed, for his license) and there are also plenty of instances where lethal force was unnecessary.

So your argument that if you just keep your nose clean (and are white) and you'll have nothing to fear is insufficient. I was trying to interject humor but let me just say it straight up: Your perspective is just one tiny sliver of the pie and while you have a point, it's secondary to the bigger point. Maybe you don't care for those protesting, their life choices or whatever, but that doesn't mean that cops around the country are overstepping their bounds and people are dying needlessly.

Police need to figure out a way to take down unarmed suspects without filling them full of lead.