The Goat Pen

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:37 pm**

bluetick wrote:
Professor Tiger wrote:I thought kids taking rifles to school was normal in Tinnersee.
Health insurance premiums have doubled every 7-8 years. We should just leave the system as is, right, with 55-60 mil uninsured wearing out ERs and hospitals while watching family annual premiums crest 30k/yr?
If the current system results in health insurance premiums doubling every 7-8 years and family annual premiums being 30k/yr, then Obamacare is now right on track to produce health insurance premiums doubling every 7-8 years and family annual premiums being 30k/yr, except with a lot more government paperwork for providers, and whopping incentives for employers to stop offering health care to full time employees.

Obamacare fixes the health care cost problem like banning rifles with bayonet notches and pistol grips fixes school shootings.
Again. Our current healthcare track is unsustainable. What's your plan?

everyone just pay cash for their healthcare, no insurance

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:51 pm**

Again. Our current healthcare track is unsustainable. What's your plan?

For starters, I would follow Hypocrates' maxim: "First, do no harm." That would mean not backing pseudo-plans like Obamacare that don't fix the problem. Putting the government in charge of healthcare expecting better efficiency and lower costs is like putting the post office in charge of Fedex and UPS expecting better efficiency and lower costs.

A health care free market should mean that, when health care premiums hit a point where nobody can pay them, health insurers will start to lose money. When so many uninsured people get primary care in ER's, hospitals and providers will start to lose money. When pharmaceutical companies sell such expensive products that nobody buys them, the pharmaceutical companies will start losing money. When medicare and medicaid bills get so high that that governments stop paying them, everybody in the healthcare industry will lose money.

In short, all the components of the healthcare industry will keep raising their prices until they start losing money. When that happens, then and only then will premiums will go down. That's the way the market is supposed to work. Government interference just distorts the market forces and doesn't solve the problem.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:58 pm**

Couple of ways to cut costs:

Does every hospital in a 50 mile radius have to own a specialized machine like a MRI? What if local city hospitals took care of emergency stuff and basic surgery but for more specialized stuff, go to the hospitals that always advertise like #1 in heart care in central Indiana, etc... that have these special machines and doctors for that care.

Allow insurance companies to go between states and regions to allow more competition

Have a basic insurance plan that people can get that covers preventive and normal doctor visits like for a cold, twisted ankle, etc... and covers basic hospital stays for knee surgery, tonsil removal, etc..

Have another plan that you can opt-in for major health events like heart attack, major accident like car wrecks, or diagnosis of major health issues like cancer, diabetes, stuff like that.

Now how will that cut costs - Someone young starting out will most likely not opt in for a major health event plan because well, they are young. If the basic insurance does it job of providing cheaper and easier access to preventive measures, then major health issues should go down in the long term. Someone with a family in their 30-40 range will opt for both because of kids and just getting older. Now you can have plans where the major medical can be like 10k - 25k deductibles to help save money for both sides.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:39 pm**

"In short, all the components of the healthcare industry will keep raising their prices until they start losing money. When that happens, then and only then will premiums will go down."

Either that, or else they'll all get together and meet with top government officials and convince them that if the government doesn't come up with $10 trillion by the following Monday, the US economy will cease to exist. And then the government will bail them out. Look what that plan cost us already...

"That's the way the market is supposed to work. Government interference just distorts the market forces and doesn't solve the problem."

See above...

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:45 pm**

BigRedMan wrote:Couple of ways to cut costs:

Does every hospital in a 50 mile radius have to own a specialized machine like a MRI? What if local city hospitals took care of emergency stuff and basic surgery but for more specialized stuff, go to the hospitals that always advertise like #1 in heart care in central Indiana, etc... that have these special machines and doctors for that care.

Allow insurance companies to go between states and regions to allow more competition

Democrats hate this and would never allow this to happen. Ever. Democrats have reframed this competition between the states as "racing to the bottom." That is exactly what is supposed to happen in a pure free-market system (you race to the bottom on price for goods and services), but it fucks everything up in a government run system (like the Affordable Care Act) because it allows young people to compete on price. That is real bad. The government can't have that because old people will have to pay more because they will be alone in their risk pools, simple math forces insurance companies covering the elderly to raise the price just for them. Thus, you end the AFA.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:08 am**

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This is what i see when i read one of Hedge's posts.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:30 am**

You're more invested than me.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:53 am**

innocentbystander wrote:
Democrats hate this and would never allow this to happen. Ever. Democrats have reframed (I love this word!!) this competition between the states as "racing to the bottom." That is exactly what is supposed to happen in a pure free-market system (you race to the bottom on price for goods and services), but it fucks everything up in a government run system (like the Affordable Care Act) because it allows young people to compete on price. That is real bad. The government can't have that because old people will have to pay more because they will be alone in their risk pools, simple math forces insurance companies covering the elderly to raise the price just for them. Thus, you end the AFA.

Your dumbassery knows no bounds. The only thing holding back interstate insurance sales are the insurance companies themselves. Georgia legislated open (interstate) health insurance sales two years ago and no out of state carriers came calling to sell georgians any coverage. Apparently it's not cost effective for an out of state insurer to come to GA and undertake the time and expense to negotiate (re: fix) prices with hospitals and Dr.'s groups. They're better off fixing prices in their own state with the help of their own state's legislature (dem or GOP - makes no difference). Arizona and Maine have also allowed interstate sales, with no appreciable results.

Think about it, goof. Why do the major insurance companies lobby against interstate sales in nearly all the states? Because they are happy with the status quo of a system that is 60 years in the making and decidedly in their favor. Here, Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Tennessee has their own insurance policy against rogue companies swooping in from the Northeast or west...it's called kickbacks to local GOP lawmakers.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:20 am**

Professor Tiger wrote:I thought kids taking rifles to school was normal in Tinnersee.?

Sadly that isn't the case any more. When I went to high school (graduated in 87) we had our guns at school quite a bit. Kept them in the trucks and got hunts up together after school. Rabbit, deer, whatever. We took out bows to school during bow season as well. We didn't carry them every day or anything, probably 5-10 times a year when a group of us would decide to go huntin after shool.

Our class play we used a real 12 ga shotgun and actually fired it in the gym (after removing all the shot so it was just wadding) during the play.

Every guy had a pocket knife at all times and used it when needed for whatever. As long as we only used them when needed and kept them in our pockets otherwise they were left alone.

Nobody ever thought of a kid shooting up the school.

Sad that it has got to where a kid was suspended for a wallpaper on his computer that was a picture of a gun.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:52 am**

Climate science expands to beer and finds...........wait for it.............gloom and doom.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... on_LEADTop

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:52 am**

"I am an idiot"

This is what I see when I read one of 10ac's posts..

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:24 am**

http://www.esquire.com/features/life-un ... ycare-1012 Sept 2012

Life Under Romneycare

It is the law that was the source code for Obamacare. It is the law that dare not speak its name. It also happens to be the best thing Mitt Romney will ever do in his life. Without it, I'm not sure how my family and I would live. Why would a man be ashamed of helping so many people?

Read

Anybody remember who the big Willard Mitt Romney supporter was around here?

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:03 pm**

[romneycare] had three elements: require anyone who could afford insurance to buy it, subsidize coverage for the working poor, and create some kind of "exchange" within which people could shop for the best insurance plan to suit their budget and their needs. "When I first presented it," Gruber said, " it was like an economist's dream, a centrist Republican economist's dream. The law had two goals: to cover the uninsured and to fix a broken insurance market." And everyone agreed that the individual mandate, a conservative idea out of the Heritage Foundation, was critical to the success of the plan.

The lynchpin of obamacare is a republican principle - the mandate. The obligation citizens who can afford insurance owe to all their fellow citizens who might in some way have to foot the bill. The Personal Responsibility principle, as Mitt called it.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:28 pm**

I see the memo transitioning from Bush's fault to Romney's fault has been issued.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:41 pm**

I was the big Romney supporter and there were many differences between Opramacare and Romneycare, but the biggest is the simplest for even you to understand:

That is, Massachusetts could afford it. Romney balanced the budget FIRST before he passed his healthcare plan, and he did it without raising taxes. United States can't afford this even after Oprama raised taxes.

Just because Texas has a surplus while having zero income tax doesn't mean that as a nation we will have surpluses if we eliminated the income tax. Apples and Oranges.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:59 pm**

sardis wrote:I was the big Romney supporter...

IB was the ultra mega uber Romney supporter. You were a Romney backer slacker by comparison.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:06 pm**

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:42 pm**

If they counted stupidity as a violent crime, I would be a victim every day I came into this shithole...

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:44 pm**

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Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:19 pm**

hedge wrote:If they counted stupidity as a violent crime, I would be a victim every day I came into this shithole...

Then you can only understand how we feel when we see that you posted again.

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