The Goat Pen

if someone dies from a taser then do we really have to have discussion on it being a "righteous" taze?

Just the act of being handcuffed kills some people - especially some of the boggy-hearted heart failure patients. Can't expand their diaphram.

People also die from being hit with a baton or being put in a choke or submission hold by cops.

the guy is going to attack a policeman, but that in turn doesn't give the police the right to sit there and make him jiggle like a cat stuck on an electric fence.

What? That's crazy talk. If someone is going to "attack a policman" it absolutely gives the cop the right to tase.

Okay, stop. What makes you think for a second that either side of the aisle would avoid jockeying for postion by making foolish threats and posturing? Both sides have done it, are doing it, and will continue to do it about myriad subjects.

AA. Yes, both sides have done it. However, it has now been given major attribution in the cause for a credit downgrade. That's a HUGE difference than rhetoric about abortion rights, ceremonial votes against bills that are already negotiated for passage (down to who will vote Yea and Nay) and whether Mosques should be built next to McDonald's or day cares. This was rhetoric that had a global impact. You understand that, but maybe haven't come to terms with it, or maybe don't care. But, this surpassed the "Politics as Usual" world we normally deal with.

AAA Ratings

There is a HUGE difference between the consequences of AAA ratings on sovereign debt versus structured products. AAA ratings on sovereign debt mean something to the everyday policy of foreign governments. Now, some global (and US) municipalities shat the bed because they got scammed by structured products with high quality ratings, but it pales in comparison to what the US Treasury sells in auction to foreign governments. Most governments require 2 agencies to downgrade before they automatically dump sovereign debt, but now this downgrade moves the action to a discretionary mode. I will know tonight at about 9pm whether the shit hits the fan...for all of us.

"Bailing out Wall Street"

Depending on what that means, "bailing out Wall Street" bailed out everybody. There were plenty of things Bush and Obama (or Paulson and Geitner) did horribly in saving Capitalism, but most of what was done was necessary. It was a very tense environment for a while there, and no one was willing to talk about it (because that information would help no one...unless you wanted to move into Socialism). If it were not for a large chunk of that bailout, not only would Lehman and Bear be gone...but Morgan Stanley, Citibank and Bank of America (including Merrill Lynch), as well. Gone. Kaput. Owned by the government (which I surmised would spread contagion to JP Morgan and possibly Commerce). Then we would see how many people really understood what Socialism is.

The AIG piece was handled the most poorly, IMO, and there were many other things that could have been done better. However, that bail-out saved all our asses. Not just my side of the world.

Lower Taxes

How much job growth was spurred by slashing cap gain taxes?

I didn't say he didn't have the right to taze, i said he doesn't have the right to make the guy lay there and flop like a fish out of water

"How much job growth was spurred by slashing cap gain taxes?"

I'm not worried about growth when it comes to taxes, I'm worried about an expectation that I or any American should pay more to cover financial insolvency brought on by politicians who acted on their own behalf, not mine.

Bklyn,

They do it on everything. Especially on something that gives them a poker chip to push their agenda.

I don't hold these guys in disdain for a couple of reasons:

1. Many were doing exactly what their constituents wanted

2. I expected it.

I'm not sure I follow you, eCat. Are you saying that the repeatedly tazed him after he was already subdued and cuffed or something? If so, arrest the cops. That's abuse.

they tazed the hell out of those guys in "The Hangover" and they were ok. anybody that dies from a tazing should be removed from the gene pool anyway.

AlabamAlum wrote:I'm not sure I follow you, eCat. Are you saying that the repeatedly tazed him after he was already subdued and cuffed or something? If so, arrest the cops. That's abuse.

yea I'm saying that, although I'm just guessing.

Hahaha.

Okay.

I'm worried about an expectation that I or any American should pay more to cover financial insolvency brought on by politicians who acted on their own behalf, not mine.

That's the fallacy. Politicians don't act on their own behalf (well they do want to get reelected), they act on behalf of their constituencies. We have the govt that constituencies want. That's why when people talk cuts, they only talk about cutting things that effect other people. Politicians do what their constituents want. The House depends on a small group for reelection so they are much more reactionary than the Senate who represents a much larger group and has longer time before facing them. That's why the Senate is generally more conservative.

It reminds me of the woman (in 1994) when I was purchasing tickets to hear Jack Kemp speak thought that I was a conservative Republican. She was happy to see me and spoke glowingly about term limits so that we can get rid of Ted Kennedy. I asked her when was the last time she voted against Kennedy for the Senate (in North Carolina)? Simple question but she didn't understand. I pointed out to her that if she really wanted term limits, then she should be talking about Jesse Helms, because he was her Senator. But she didn't want it to effect who she voted for, she wanted it to effect other people's choices.

The problem is not the politicians, the problem is that people want politicians, they don't want statesmen and that's who they put into office. Hence, the lost of most of the moderates.

Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821) wrote in 1811: “Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle merite.” ("Every nation has the government it deserves.")

Indeed.

Christie shows his versatility

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/0 ... 19205.html

Bklyn wrote:Christie shows his versatility

He's entering the Nathan's Hot Dog contest AND the Toledo Paczki contest?

Sorry, couldn't resist the set-up.

Seriously though, kudos to him.

any blame of the teapartiers for this mess is hilarious when the executive branch obama the senate with reid and the house with pelosi had 2 years to see this mess coming and do something and yet they couldn't even do a one year budget. for these clowns to now be blaming teapartiers is hilarious.

This wasn't a crisis. The debt ceiling would have been raised quietly without fuss and without making the world scared. The tea party is absolutely at fault.

Even with Republicans in charge, they would had a debt deal a month ago without the tea party. In fact, one with greater amount of deficit reduction

Sorry CrashCourse, if you want to make statements countering the S&P press release, you better come with sources. Not just statements. Otherwise, I think you're just protecting your ideological position simply because it's your "team."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-market ... 5.html?x=0

Prices for U.S. government debt rose -- even after S&P essentially said they were a riskier investment than the debt of some other major world economies -- because Treasurys are still seen as one of the world's few safe havens. Prices rise as demand increases.

Sounds like S&P should have downgraded everything AAA down to AA...

Why????