The Goat Pen

AlabamAlum wrote:IB:

The belief that no cultures viewed murder as wrong before the fable of the burning bush and stone tablets is beyond the pale. There were established civilizations before Moses that had laws and a belief in right and wrong - which included punishments for murder; predating Moses are civilizations in Sumer, Persia, Asian, Egypt, etc, and numerous other cultures concurrent with Moses or even afterwards (Toltec, for example) that had no knowledge of 'stone tablets', but who had well defined laws and mores.

You've essentially implied that atheists, without benefit in a belief in god(s), are wild animals.

Morals have been around a long, long time, at least a couple thousand years (maybe more, depending on how serious you think people took those original ten Commandments.)

Atheism is new. That secular humanistic religion (a religion of no religion) is only a couple-hundred years old at most. That is it. And it has the ultimate benefit OF Christianity. What I mean by that is that Christianity (not atheism) defined morality. Morals were already there LONG before Atheism came to town. Atheism can take NO CREDIT (none what-so-ever) for helping to shape moral man. (An atheist could say that he or she IS moral, but it is not atheism that gave the atheist their morality. That was Christianity.)

Nope, atheism does not add to a culture's moral foundation. It is atheism that tears morals down, tries to bit-by-incremental-bit, dismantle the foundation of a civilized society. An atheist could claim that their religion is science. Science is Amoral. Doing what is Right vs doing what is wrong play no part in science.

Ayn Rand took ultimate pride in her Fundamental Atheism. She had absolutely no problem with adultry. And why not, to her human beings were nothing more than animals where one is rated better than the other based solely on their intellect. That is what atheism has wrought.

AA, we are heading back in that direction. The turning point was the 1960s. If it felt good, do it. Divorce, Drug addition, Abortion, Infidelity, Euthanasia, Eugenics, Illegitimacy, ALL frowned upon (and at one time, something that brought SHAME to those involved), frowned upon by the Christian. Right there in the Bible, those things are bad. To an atheist... well, they are a bit more morally relativistic.

Cain

Owlman wrote:Cain

At least 2500 years (or so) before God gave us His law.

Cain was an animal.

"That secular humanistic religion (a religion of no religion) is only a couple-hundred years old at most."

Yeah, but through the founding fathers, it produced our constitution and pretty much our culture. I'd say that's something, contrary to your claim that atheists can't produce a moral code...

"frowned upon by the Christian."

I certainly don't want to tar all christians with the same brush as you (that would be immoral as well as plain wrong), b/c there are happy, joyful christians out there, ones who truly embrace the core evangelical ("glad tidings") message of Jesus. But dopes like you have come to define christianity, with your frowning and shame and bullshit judgementalism about everything that doesn't suit your little pea brains. Christianity isn't necessarily a religion of idiots, but it certainly seems to attract most of them. Not terribly surprising, what with christianity's focus on the poor, the weak, the downtrodden, those are the people it targets. It certainly hit the mark with IB, he's about as poor, weak and downtrodden a human specimen as I've ever come across...

Hello

Jungle Rat wrote:We always did Round The World for our hazing. Can spell Drugs without DU. (of course they've been banned for a decade or so now)

Well well. Dikia Upotheke, brother Rat.

our chapter got the axe 15 years ago...a Little Sis OD'd (lived but parents sued and won big)

Christianity defined morality? Seriously? Pretty sure that by the time the Apostle Paul made his way to Athens, there was already a large body of work on that subject. Plato and Socrates's views on character, virtue, and justice are the cornerstone for Western (and much of Eastern) civilization.

It'd be accurate to say that Jesus and his Disciples came to define and foster Christian morality.

"Christianity is Platonism for the masses." - Nietzsche

Speaking of atheism, this is commendable: Doing good is good no matter who is doing it:

Atheist Groups Are Raising Money to Help Families of Newtown Shooting Victims

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... g-victims/

Top 10 Politically Correct Christmas Carols:

10. O Holiday Tree
9. Have Yourself a Merry Little Day of Winter.
8. Frosty the Snowperson
7. Chestnuts Roasting On A Safely Contained, Continuously Monitored, Eco-friendly, Non-toxic, Outdoor Fire (Foe Which I Do Have a Permit)
6. Higher Power Rest You Merry Gentlemen
5. Grandma Allegedly Got Run Over By An Unidentified Non-Human Perpetrator
4. Deck the Halls With Boughs of Endangered Foliage (if office policy permits
3. Hark, the Herald Mythical Winged Creature Sings
2. I Saw Mommy Greeting Santa Claus With A Purely Platonic Expression of Inoffensive Mutual Affection
1. I'll Be Home For a Brief Period of Time in December

"Speaking of atheism, this is commendable: Doing good is good no matter who is doing it:

Atheist Groups Are Raising Money to Help Families of Newtown Shooting Victims"

That can't be accurate. IB has already told us that there is no morality outside religion (specifically judeo-christian religion). Must be a false report...

Professor Tiger wrote:Top 10 Politically Correct Christmas Carols:

10. O Holiday Tree
9. Have Yourself a Merry Little Day of Winter.
8. Frosty the Snowperson
7. Chestnuts Roasting On A Safely Contained, Continuously Monitored, Eco-friendly, Non-toxic, Outdoor Fire (Foe Which I Do Have a Permit)
6. Higher Power Rest You Merry Gentlemen
5. Grandma Allegedly Got Run Over By An Unidentified Non-Human Perpetrator
4. Deck the Halls With Boughs of Endangered Foliage (if office policy permits
3. Hark, the Herald Mythical Winged Creature Sings
2. I Saw Mommy Greeting Santa Claus With A Purely Platonic Expression of Inoffensive Mutual Affection
1. I'll Be Home For a Brief Period of Time in December

Are any of those songs even allowed on the radio any more? You can barely tell it's Christmas time. The War on Christmas is over...the godless atheists won

True. You never hear carols on the radio, see nativity scenes, Christmas trees....nothing.

Just a void where these things used to be.

Man shoots customer at Little Caesars for complaining his pizza was taking too long, says he's protected by "Stand your Ground" law because he felt threatened.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1225019

AlabamAlum wrote:True. You never hear carols on the radio, see nativity scenes, Christmas trees....nothing.

Just a void where these things used to be.

Just the other day I was buying Christmas decorations at WalMart (praise God, one of the few Christian institutions left in this country), and the clerk at the register wouldn't even say "Merry Christmas". Just "thanks for shopping with us today. come in again!". And gave me this false perky smile. I can't tell you how appalled I was. I don't want to blame all of Wal-Mart and think this is just the work of a rogue, godless store manager

"Man shoots customer at Little Caesars for complaining his pizza was taking too long, says he's protected by "Stand your Ground" law because he felt threatened."

He probably saved lives, that complaining customer was probably moments away from taking out everybody in the store. We need to arm all cashiers at all retail outlets to nip that kind of thing in the bud. This guy is a true Amurican hero...

hedge wrote:"Man shoots customer at Little Caesars for complaining his pizza was taking too long, says he's protected by "Stand your Ground" law because he felt threatened."

He probably saved lives, that complaining customer was probably moments away from taking out everybody in the store. We need to arm all cashiers at all retail outlets to nip that kind of thing in the bud. This guy is a true Amurican hero...

Don't forget movie theaters. We need an armed guard in every movie theater. One per screen. And mall cops should have real guns too. And every floor of every office building needs an armed guard patrolling at all times.

Gunman kills 2 firefighters responding to a house ablaze; Still at large

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... t/1788917/

Don't need armed guards, just do away with "gun free zones". There is a reason all of these mass killings happen in gun free zones. They pick soft targets to allow them the most time to wreak havoc.

Every time you put up a sign that says "gun free zone" you are inviting criminals to come do what they want.

If you don't think so then would you put up a sign like that in your front yard?

Gun advocates demand Piers Morgan be deported. GIT OUT FURRINER!

http://news.yahoo.com/pro-gun-rights-us ... 19681.html