Florida State Seminoles

[Bklyn]

If you don't understand economics, don't talk in these absolutist, thinly thought-out ways. At least don't waste my time with it.

[innocentbystander]

If you don't understand economics, don't talk in these absolutist, thinly thought-out ways. At least don't waste my time with it.

I'm not even remotely interested in trying to convince you of anything. I know that good labor isn't worth anything in a 1st world economy. Ours is the information age. China is still in the industrial age. So we have China do all our industry. I don't care what you think about it.

Owl,

Like most, Latino's are concerned with a whole lot of issues beyond just one. It's thinking of Latino's as simple or only concerned with one issue that makes it hard for the GOP to make inroads.

Not really. Just one issue. Rich vs Poor.

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-11-14.html

Even when they agree with Republicans on the issues, poor immigrants tend to vote tribally. It’s perfectly possible to get the following answers from a recent immigrant:

-- How do you feel about abortion?
It's taking a life.

-- What should we do about criminals?
Lock them up and throw away the key.

-- Do you support raising taxes?
No, the government takes too much already.

-- How do you feel about overpaid, well-pensioned government workers with no-show jobs?
It ticks me me off.

-- Do you support gay marriage?
Absolutely not.

-- How are you going to vote?
Democratic.

Many recent immigrants oppose abortion, gay marriage and big government. The problem is that poor, uneducated people -- the Democratic base -- are easily demagogued into voting “for the race.”

A white person can vote for a Republican or a Democrat without anyone saying to him, "HOW CAN YOU VOTE AGAINST YOUR RACE?" But that is exactly how poor Hispanics and blacks are pressured into voting Democratic.

Noticeably, the No. 1 issue Obama had in his favor this year was not his record of accomplishment. It was that a majority of voters agreed with the statement: Obama "cares for people like me." That's how Hugo Chavez got elected.

Running Hispanics won't help Republicans. Ask Gary Franks, Lynn Swann or Michael Steele if being black won them the black vote.

Promoting amnesty won't help -- ask John McCain, who won about the same percentage of the Hispanic vote as Romney did.

Or ask California's Hispanics, only 4 percent of whom oppose Republican immigration policies. Their main beef with the GOP is that they view Republicans as "the rich."

That is all it is... rich vs poor, fuck everything else.

[Bklyn]

You have no idea what the definition of labor is, but if you keep talking confidently some people will believe you know what you're talking about. That's dangerous...just not a danger here.

[innocentbystander]

You have no idea what the definition of labor is, but if you keep talking confidently some people will believe you know what you're talking about. That's dangerous...just not a danger here.

Bklyn, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, none. I put myself through college doing labor. I worked in a warehouse. Labor. How did you pay for college? Did you get scholarships, did you take loans, did your parents pay, or did my tax dollars give you financial aid/grants to pay for your college? Did you ever do any real labor in your life?

I say labor doesn't matter because we are in the information age. We can automate quite a bit of work in out country (so much so that the lumpers can't get a decent wage using their physical brawn.) That is the United States. And it is going to get worse. There will be less and less opportunity (in our country) for people with a below average IQ. As it is right now, they can't get married. Marriage is increasingly only the intelligent, the educated, the upper middle class. People have been writing books about this.

Your asinine comment about...

the regulatory and treasury framework aligned with our capitalist structure

...is the only thing that is truly dangerous around here. If you really believe this, please do us all a favor and never vote again in any election as you are an uninformed voter. It is not regulation and the treasury framework that hurts labor in the United States. It is that we are in the information age and the world is "flat" and (as a result) companies that build things can choose to build them anywhere. How can uneducated, unintelligent, US labor compete (on price) with Chinese people who are willing to labor for $1 an hour?

They can't.

Its over for labor. Government had nothing to do with it. Automation and intelligence ended the working man.

[Bklyn]

As I thought, you have no idea of the definition of labor...

Continue on, however, with your rants.

[innocentbystander]

As I thought, you have no idea of the definition of labor...

Continue on, however, with your rants.

You didn't answer my question. How did you pay for college? Who paid for it?

[Bklyn]

My father and my employer. It means nothing to my original point, IB.

You are not using labor in the proper way, considering what this whole discussion has been about. I have consistently pointed it out, hoping to get you to Google it and save the shame. You have none. We've done this dance before on other topics. It's kinda ridiculous.

[Owlman]

I talk about the GOP not recognizing that Latinos have multiple beliefs and IB trying to disagree classifies all Latinos as recent immigrants. He quotes Ann Coulter who thinks all Latinos think alike and doesn't recognize that the politics of Cuban-Americans and Mexican Americans generally are very different. POINT.

[eCat]

Interesting - CNN dumps Piers Morgan show primarily because his anti-gun stance killed the ratings.

[eCat]

Alec Baldwin unloads..

http://www.vulture.com/2014/02/alec-bal ... -life.html

[Saint]

Dear Lord, I hope no one here ever becomes famous.

I can't believe he wrote 10,000 words trying to explain why he called some asshole photog a faggot during a raging confrontation. Shit, when I'm that mad, everyone's a faggot.

[Toemeesleather]

Labor doesn't matter. Only capital. You need labor, call China. They will beat ANY PRICE (any price in thee entire world) on well formed, repetitive, systematic, labor.


Labor does matter and always will, now the proportion of labor/capitol will change and indeed has been in transition for decades. This is good news/bad news, depending of your perspective. No one doubts there are less farmers now (in the US) than ever and fewer acres are being plowed, but US Ag still feeds the world, so to speak. There used to be tens of thousands of telephone operators, but that labor disappeared decades ago.....Bill Gates didn't need the same quantity of labor to build his empire as Henry Ford, but both created wealth for millions. The "labor doesn't matter" argument, to me, is as silly as the "science is settled" cant of the AGW church.


*PS - The cost of Chinese labor has risen so fast that some seasonal products are already (have been for a few years) transitioning back to this hemisphere.

[eCat]

Labor doesn't matter. Only capital. You need labor, call China. They will beat ANY PRICE (any price in thee entire world) on well formed, repetitive, systematic, labor.


Labor does matter and always will, now the proportion of labor/capitol will change and indeed has been in transition for decades. This is good news/bad news, depending of your perspective. No one doubts there are less farmers now (in the US) than ever and fewer acres are being plowed, but US Ag still feeds the world, so to speak. There used to be tens of thousands of telephone operators, but that labor disappeared decades ago.....Bill Gates didn't need the same quantity of labor to build his empire as Henry Ford, but both created wealth for millions. The "labor doesn't matter" argument, to me, is as silly as the "science is settled" cant of the AGW church.


*PS - The cost of Chinese labor has risen so fast that some seasonal products are already (have been for a few years) transitioning back to this hemisphere.

speaking of the US Ag business - I can't believe they are cutting off water to farmers out in California. I know they have to but I just can't see them letting orchards and such die

[eCat]

another issue is this agreement between Comcast and Netflix.

This is a direct hit on the now defunct net neutrality agreement and sets a precedent none of us will want.

[aTm]

Basically Netflix is either paying for preferred service over and above what other sites are going to get, or they're paying for the same bandwidth that the customer is already paying for.

[eCat]

Basically Netflix is either paying for preferred service over and above what other sites are going to get, or they're paying for the same bandwidth that the customer is already paying for.

yes but given they are biggest bandwidth issue on the internet, now that lays the groundwork for internet providers to start charging content providers a fee to get a faster pipeline to the consumer - and more importantly - those that don't - get throttled.

Websites like this one would never have the money to pay the fee to provide unfettered access for their users. That was the heart of net neutrality.

[innocentbystander]

Labor doesn't matter. Only capital. You need labor, call China. They will beat ANY PRICE (any price in thee entire world) on well formed, repetitive, systematic, labor.


Labor does matter and always will, now the proportion of labor/capitol will change and indeed has been in transition for decades. This is good news/bad news, depending of your perspective. No one doubts there are less farmers now (in the US) than ever and fewer acres are being plowed, but US Ag still feeds the world, so to speak. There used to be tens of thousands of telephone operators, but that labor disappeared decades ago.....Bill Gates didn't need the same quantity of labor to build his empire as Henry Ford, but both created wealth for millions. The "labor doesn't matter" argument, to me, is as silly as the "science is settled" cant of the AGW church.


*PS - The cost of Chinese labor has risen so fast that some seasonal products are already (have been for a few years) transitioning back to this hemisphere.

Point of order Toemeesleather....

The ONLY THING that employees of Henry Ford working on his assembly line in 1920 share with employees of Bill Gates writing his operating system code in 2000 is that they were employees. If you want to call software developers labor, go for it.

I won't.

When I say "labor doesn't matter" let me be very specific. Labor (in that context) falls under the following conditions (all of these):

• Work where all the tasks are extremely well formed
• Work that is repetitive
• Work that does not require a lot of thinking
• Work that does not require a lot of questions asked by those doing the work
• Work that is heavily supervised
• Work where month-old-newbies doing the work can master all of the work that is done and do it as good as someone who has been doing this same work for 20 years

That is the labor that doesn't matter. That is the labor that we outsource to China.

It is not that I am not sympathetic. I am just a realist. I see what has happened to our country over the last 100 years. The data is there and very easy to analyze. If you were a man born in the 1930s and graduated high school in the mid 1950s with an IQ of 85, a firm faith in God and Christ, a strong work ethic, and with two loving parents (caring mother, strong firm father), you were pretty much set. Fuck college. Don't waste your time. Get to work. You could get a "labor" job doing something (anything) without too much effort. 60 days on the job, you were in the union. Two years later, have a down payment for a house. And a year after that, you were married. Five years later, you and your wife had 3 kids and dinner was on the table when you got home from the quarry/plant/warehouse/factory/mill/whatever. Life worked.

Of course the following pre-feminst Patriacrical model of male labor bringing home maximum resources to their wives, made it work (for everyone):

• Europe was in still in smoldering ruin from WWII
• There were no plants/factories in Asia (yet)
• The world bought American made or it didn't buy anything
• The church (be it the RCC or Protestant parishes) had real power and clout over the community
• Men actually wanted to get married because married men were respected in the community. There was NO no-fault-divorce law, so women didn't have "threatpoint" to keep their husbands in line (make me happy or I'll leave you and take cash and prizes)
• There were no restraining orders and fathers insisted that their young married daughters OBEYED their husbands in all things
• 3 bedrooms, one living room, and one bath was all a family of five or six needed and they just made do

It doesn't work anymore. Everything has changed. The intelligent and the STEM educated are spoiled and fat. The un-intelligent working man is screwed. No marriage. No happy home. Nothing. He has nothing because it was all offshored to Asia where the chattel are perfectly happy slaving their life away for a $1 an hour. This is why American "labor" no longer has any real clout over business (or government.) Sure, you can form a union and the older men can demand tenure, pension, and seniority. But eventually the capital owner will just ship the plant to China and fuck the community. Un-intelligent labor is too expensive in the United States.

[innocentbystander]

I talk about the GOP not recognizing that Latinos have multiple beliefs and IB trying to disagree classifies all Latinos as recent immigrants. He quotes Ann Coulter who thinks all Latinos think alike and doesn't recognize that the politics of Cuban-Americans and Mexican Americans generally are very different. POINT.

The Cuban-American GOP vote in Miami has no meaningful impact (none-what-so-ever) on the overall, overwhelming support, Hispanics have for the Democratic Party. Ann Coulter has perfectly described why that is. This is a rich-vs-poor issue. Period. Full stop.

Earlier Owl, you had mentioned the GOP making "in roads" to immigrants. Well, okay. The GOP are GOP, they are not going to give MORE gimmies to the people than the Democrats. Sho about those "in roads?" If our country did what Mitt Romney wanted to do (attach a Green Card to the diploma of every foreign national who earned a Master's Degree or a PhD in Computer Science in any university in the United States) then Senator Ted Kennedy's infernal 1965 immigration reform would start to reverse, and the GOP would start to truly have clout among immigrants. But not before. Our immigrants have massive government needs and produce very little real wealth. They are financial sinks. They largely avoid the RCC (I found that surprising actually.) They can't pass any meaningful classes at university. They marry less (if at all.) They breed mostly bastards. They live lives of unemployment, drug addiction, welfare, section-8-housing, rampant domestic violence, crime, and alcoholism. As such, they vote Democrat.

[Owlman]

Ann Coulter assumed that the majority of Latinos were recent immigrants and that all Latinos think alike. The Cuban American vote has a significant impact in Florida. Are you saying that you don't believe Florida has an impact on national elections?? Don't say it. Don't prove what we already know.

As for the rest of Latinos, Puerto Ricans are Americans, have been Americans for a long time and don't think the same as other Latinos, Those from Spain are very different those of Mexican ancestry and the Mexican Americans have been here since before the Alamo. Your issue IB is that you don't understand anything that is complicated. Reducing things down to a stereotype may make it easier for your basic understanding, but it doesn't make it correct

[innocentbystander]

Ann Coulter assumed that the majority of Latinos were recent immigrants and that all Latinos think alike. The Cuban American vote has a significant impact in Florida. Are you saying that you don't believe Florida has an impact on national elections?? Don't say it. Don't prove what we already know.

In did in 2000 (for 500+ votes.) Not since. And probably never again (not until we change that 1965 nonsense.)

As for the rest of Latinos, Puerto Ricans are Americans, have been Americans for a long time and don't think the same as other Latinos, Those from Spain are very different those of Mexican ancestry and the Mexican Americans have been here since before the Alamo. Your issue IB is that you don't understand anything that is complicated. Reducing things down to a stereotype may make it easier for your basic understanding, but it doesn't make it correct

I don't really care what you think. Your noise is all just rhetoric. I have the data on my side. You do not.

Puerto Ricans are not immigrants Owl. They are hispanic US citizens. They are free to come to the United States and live here and work here and vote here and pay taxes here any time they want. What typically stops them from coming is leaving their family and their welfare behind not to mention the cost of the plane ticket. And if they got here and registered to vote here, they would largely all vote Democrat because they are largely, poor. The Democrats promise them the most "stuff" and that is how they will vote. My nephew married a Puerto Rican girl and let me assure you, she is a Democrat. She is that way because she genuinely believes that white people owe her everything because she is so poor and the United States is so rich, end of story. She actually believed that by marrying a white boy (my nephew), she would be rich. That is the level of understanding we are talking about here..... and let me assure you, the fact that she is NOT rich is causing a lot of problems in their marriage (her saying she should just move back to Puerto Rico and get her welfare money.)

This is not that complicated. But it probably makes you feel good if you define these things are complicated issues. They are not. The only "in roads" the GOP can make to immigrants is to bring in the most intelligent and educated immigrants who can earn the most money working as educated professionals. They would tend to vote GOP and maybe we can save this country. But the Democratic Party will never allow this to happen as it will cost them elections.